Q: What was the rhythm section for that track? A: The drum and the bass? The bass was a guy called Reggie, he and Glen Adams used to play together. Q: Oh, Alva 'Reggie' Lewis? A: Yeah, I don't remember his last name. But Reggie, he played guitar, he played the bass 'doo doo te doo doo'. Q: Reggie, I think he used to play with the Upsetters. A: Yeah man, yeah man. I don't remember if the drummer was Leroy Wallace, yunno. You know 'Horsemouth', or if it was (Eric)'Fish' Clarke, Johnny Clarke's brother. I don't remember which one a them play the drum on that. Q: By the way, where's Fish Clarke now? A: I don't know, maybe somewhere in England. I lost track of him. Q: So this was a personal track for you. A: Yeah man, that was my stuff. Ca' you might recognise the melody, 'Take Five', Dave Brubeck. Q: Right, right. Jazz classic. A: Yeah, people liked it a lot. Q: How did you like working at the Ark? A: Yeah man, it was my territory. Perry is a very exciting person to be with. I enjoyed it. Q: What do you recall the procedure to be like, what did he put into practice to whip up the best ability from a musician, what did he put across there? A: Well, they called him the 'Mad Scientist' at that time. Q: (laughs) A: (chuckles) It's a man whe full of vibes, yunno. He's drinking his Red Label wine and all a that and he'd be in a dancing mood, man. He'd be hyped up, y'know what I'm saying? Dancing and jumping around and giving you the vibes.

Q: Can be uncomfortable too, but in his case it paid off. A: Well, it actually depends on the person you are. It does inspire me, jumping around and... you know. Niney was a kinda man like that too. Observer? Q: Yeah. A: Niney the Observer. Bunny Lee, those men when they're doing a session, man, they don't just siddung when we're playing, they'd be dancing and giving you the vibes. Q: Giving you the drive, excite you. A: Yeah man. Q: Those people, as far as I know, they can't really play as such, could they explain clearly what they wanted from you? A: After a while they knew what they wanted, when you don't give them what they wanted they'd not be satisfied. So you'd have to give them whatever they wanted, and they knew what they wanted. What they wanted was the right stuff. They had that ability. Q: How much time could you spend working on a track? Reggae music was in the main so quickly produced, especially be these upcoming and independent, 'small' producers, often they couldn't afford it so it had to be, I assume, done in a rush many times. How much time did you get to produce it? A: Sometimes a riddim might take half an hour, might take an hour, could take fifteen minutes. Depends on who was playing, what was really going down. Q: Artistically speaking, working for some of these people, did you feel satisfied with the music even if it was a bit rushed, and otherwise? A: Well, yes, you just had to do the best that you could do. That's what it was at the time. And there was no arrangement then during a session. The bassman was inspired to do his own bassline most of the time, keyboard player would find his phrase. That's how it went, everybody just found their own thing and jus' combine and do the track. Q: How much did you actually work for Perry, for his own productions? You went there quite early, when the studio was fresh and perhaps not entirely finished. A: Yes, I worked for him, but I didn't do much work on his records. But I did work for him. Q: So, at the Black Ark, that's where you met Pratt, or somewhere else? A: No, I met Pratt on North Parade, at Studio 17 there, Randy's studio. And he used to be in that area, yunno. He used to hang out there in the day whe we called 'The Office', Chancery Lane, right at Parade there. Lots of musicians meet there and hang out, and we called it 'The Office'. So he used to be there as a producer, that's where I met him. We became friends, y'know, it wasn't just a producer and a musician, we were like friends.

Q: Describe your working relationship with him. What characterized his productions, what he wanted, his approach and sound? In many ways you became his arranger. A: Oh yes, well, we were so close that he rarely did a session without me playing. Yeah, well, we would just sit in there with the singers and jus' work out the chords and just lay the tracks. Q: There's something special about Pratt's sound, what I hear is a more 'subtle' approach in lack of a better word. It was never that hard, hard sound he wanted, was it? He liked it softer. A: Yeah, yeah. Right. Q: It's not straight in your face, but more of a soft quality, y'know, sweeter. A: Yeah man, exactly. Every producer have a type of sound that they want you to produce. Q: And to return to the fact that, again, it would probably be fair to say that many of the so called 'producers' were mainly financers in those days, with the difference about someone like Pratt, he was a musician and songwriter too so I guess he's the actual producer in every sense. A: Right. Q: You could discuss technically how you would do it and... A: Yeah, yeah, what you wanted to do, yes. Q: What was Pratt like to work with? A: He was all right. All right, he's wasn't a pushy type of person, he's more laidback. He'd allow you to go ahead. But that's just his producer name, that's the name he use for his music.

Q: True. How much did you record for Pratt, because there came the first full-length album bearing your name in 1977, 'Zion Hill Dub'. A: Yes. Q: Apparently it contained several of the 45's that came out, but it was released without titles, no label. Looked like a dubplate, or test-pressing. A: I never did an album for anyone, up till this time. So what he really did, he just combined a couple of 45's that I did for him, a couple of tracks. 'Cause, when Augustus Pablo was really popular, he discovered that I had the sound that could match him, and they couldn't get to him so they tried to get it from me, what could come out of me. I thought that I wasn't getting the financial response that I should from him, so for a time I just stayed away from the scene. I just go underground and people don't hear anything about me. Q: What became of your life at that point? A: I was just in the background, I lived in the country and raised some chickens and plant some vegetables, just chill out. Q: (chuckles) A: (laughs) Q: Yep, you gotta survive anyhow, don't you? Music isn't all. A: Yeah, I'm a person like that, yunno. Q: And there came actually a second album in the early 1980's for Pratt, titled 'The War Is On - Dub Style'. Recorded at Joe Gibbs' studio (then mentioning the LP's song titles). A: OK, that's the album of me you're talkin' about?

Q: I guess so, 'The War Is On - Dub Style'. A: Ah, yeah. Some of the names or the titles that they give, it isn't me who make them. If it's me I would give them myself. Q: That's what you do behind the back. A: Yeah. Q: OK. So those albums are unauthorised then. A: Yeah, I don't know anything about them. I didn't get any information about them or anything. I was really disappointed with Pratt, because I thought we were friends. And without a blink of an eye I allowed him in with a lot of my work and all a that, and I didn't get any justice. Q: The question is how you avoid being bitter in such a situation, if that's even possible after putting down so much of your talent and creative juices flowing, and what do you get? To handle it is another matter. A: I know. Like I did, when I get disappointed I jus' stayed away, and I said 'OK, that's it'. 'I'm gonna jus' leave these guys and go raise my chickens and plant my vegetables', that's all I did for a while (chuckles). Q: Can you remember this track (playing a CD track from a Pressure Sounds compilation, 'The Black & White Story')? A: No, I can't identify it.

Q: It was titled 'Liberation Front' and was released through Carlton Patterson's Black & White imprint. A: Oh? Q: No-one you recall? A: Patterson? I don't remember him too well. There was so much work in those days that... you know... Q: How much time did you spend in the studios, it sounds like non-stop work? A: Yeah, everything was just... like going to 'The Office', or you'd go to a studio like Channel One or anything and hang out there. If you'd get work, some days you wouldn't get work. Yea, it was a regular thing for us to hang out like that. Q: That was to be available at Randy's, Aquarius or Harry J's. A: Yeah, or Channel One, anyone of those places where musicians had congregated, yunno. Q: A pretty normal day would look like...? Wake up at 9 o'clock or thereabouts, breakfast, get dressed and downtown... A: Then you head for the studio, or for 'The Office'. Q: Pratt's 'office', or you mean Chancery Lane, Idler's Rest? A: Yeah man, that's what we call 'The Office'. Idler's Rest, yeah, we'd hang out there all day. That's it. Gregory Isaacs would be there, Jah Youth (Big Youth), Dillinger, most of them. Delroy Wilson, Freddie McKay, most of the popular artists and musicians would hang out at the wall all day.

Chancery Lane (Photo: Ari Ojala 1987).

Q: How do you feel now compared to your younger days, as a musician, or what's the difference now to when you were young and fresh and progressive and alternative and you came up with stuff like playing and recording the melodica and tried to create something different. Creatively speaking, how do you feel now compared to then when everything was happening and rapidly changing, in the infant days of the industry? It's that thing about perspective again, if you place yourself there, somewhere? A: I'm much more matured now as a musician, and as a person, yunno. But what really has 'appened now, nobody really want to play an instrument as much anymore. I don't know, I guess it's the generation, it's mostly deejay and singers. They're not so creative on the instruments. Q: But, yeah, obviously 'matured' (chuckles). A: Yeah man, if I would be doing instrumentals now they would be different from the ones I did before. Q: In what way? A: OK. In those days you didn't have any choice to arrange what you'd want to arrange, those riddims were made already, and a man would say 'Come up with somet'ing on it'. So you just play a lickle phrase and him say 'Yeah man, that's all right, man'. That's it. Q: (chuckles) A: I play much more better melody now, better arrangement. I'll be able to arrange my own stuff. I would choose the melody I want, the type of arrangement I want. In those days I didn't have any choice. They didn't make the session for me, most of the riddims were already there, so you'd have to fit something to what they have. Q: Was that frustrating? A: Not really, but it was limited, yunno, to what you really wanted to do. Q: Can you see something inspiring with the music of today? A: About the type of music being made today? Music is always music and it's a different generation, they have a different feeling. So I can appreciate that they want their own, it's their thing. It's not really 'my' thing, but I still feel that's the way they should do it, because this is what they like.

Bobby Kalphat.

Q: How do you feel working with computers and digital technology as opposed to the analog, organic, acoustic sound of yesterday? A: It's the same, sound is jus' sound. Q: But you won't get a warm sound from it, it's like you peel off every layer of 'flesh', it's too clean, and what remains is just a skeleton. You go back to the sound of yesterday and it's a different matter. A: That's true, that's true. But it's the technology they're using today, so... But I heard that in Europe they're going back to the original sound, they want that. Which is good to hear. Q: Do you think they've 'lost' something in Jamaica now, sound-wise? A: I think they've lost the identity of reggae, they're searching for something now but they've lost the real touch that we had. I think reggae need to be something else to get across, it's not the authentic thing. Some people still try to hold it, but the dancehall, it's a different thing they're doing. The riddims, they don't last for long. Q: Perhaps it's too easy to label dancehall as some kind of 'mindless, pre-fabricated drivel using empty, distorted rhythms', but can you hear anything in their arrangements to pick up and sort of 'transform' to your own, or you mainly reject what they're doing? A: No, I would not completely reject what they're doing, because it's music and there's always something that you can use. Q: These days you mostly find yourself working at Anchor Studios, don't you? Gussie Clarke. Music Works, Gussie's headquarters. A: Yeah, I did a session for Willi Williams there, and also I did some recordings on my own. Q: Is that a new album to come, or just a couple of tracks? A: Just a couple of tracks, four or five. Q: How do veteran musicians survive in Kingston in this time, you wonder if there's any space for them except the selected few? A: I haven't worked for quite a while as a musician so I couldn't tell you much, no. But I'm in Connecticut in a band right here now. We have rehearsed a couple of times so far. Q: When you think about the music and the quantity of it, how much music's been done over the past fifty years or so, it feels like you're coming to an abyss sooner or later, and at one point or another it will have to turn. But in order to move 'forward', it's like you'd have to go back to your roots again to find yourself to be able to move forward. Is that something you could recognise after all these years? A: Yeah, absolutely.

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Article: Peter I (Please do not reproduce without permission)