Q: Do you think Slim has received the true credit he's due?

A: Yeah, I don't wanna receive his credit. It's just like, if I wanna do over one of his songs, I would do it like on the now-riddim, that would create a sound. You know, it could create something. I don't wanna receive his credit, especially when it's The Uniques, y'know. He's good. I was one of his pall-bearer when he died, carried his coffin.

Q: How was the funeral, if you can recall? It was a big one for the public?

A: Oh yeah, I remember that.

Q: He was still quite popular in Jamaica at the time of his death, he hadn't lost it at that point.

A: No. But it's just... that's what love does to some people who can't control their emotions, because he was in love with this girl, and this girl's mother was my ex-wife's friend.

Q: So it was caused by a love affair, and the suicide, the accident or whatever, it was not related to the music business and the pressure from that as some would have it?

A: Yeah. No, it's not music business, it was a love affair. He and the girl there was breaking up and stuff. Maybe she didn't want as much as he. It's not a matter of control but it's just they were breaking up, maybe he love her more than she love him.

Q: What was Slim like? Moody type of guy?

A: Not that I know of, y'know. What I know about is really when going to the studio and doing shows, and stuff. He's just a quite, nice guy to me. Believe me, I never heard anything. Maybe he's moody sometimes to somebody, maybe they're annoyed and all. You know, maybe they're stressed out or something like that (chuckles). I never knew him as one a them guys just like... he was a quiet, quiet man. Maybe people who were close to him knew it different, but I never heard anything like that about him. Never.

Q: So he wasn't 'difficult' in that way?

A: No, not that guy. Not to me. We talked, we did a music together, stuff like that. Go by Bunny Lee and hang out and stuff, y'know. I never knew him as - I mean, that guy would just be quiet until we're going. He never do anything much.

Q: Did he leave any family, any kids behind?

A: Well, I don't know either. I never really heard anything about it. I just don't know that part. You know, I think you would hear 'Oh, Slim Smith's kid', or 'Slim Smith's that', but I don't think he had any kids.

Q: And he died way too early, he wasn't that old when he passed. Maybe about twenty-five.

A: No, he wasn't. I think Slim Smith was in his early twenties. You know, he was young. OK, maybe he was a little more than that, I don't remember if I'm older than him, maybe he was twenty-five or a little older, somewhere along that line.

Q: What was his stage presence like, if you remember seeing him in action? I heard he was quite a performer in his time.

A: Stage presence you know... The Techniques them time was good, you would hear about them them time there, he was good. He had that unique sound and he had his songs and when he get that together it's just 'Wow!', they go wild (chuckles)... you know? At one time I was going to be in Techniques' group, before I form the Cables. And I went and I did audition and this was just before they would start go for rehearsal, and I didn't come in. Because I think, y'know, my way wasn't to be singin' harmony. I forgot who was the leader, at that time Slim Smith wasn't in the group as such.

Q: He left the Techniques and formed the Uniques with Lloyd Charmers and Jimmy Riley at that time.

A: Yeah. Techniques wanted me, so I went for audition and stuff but they're like 'maaeeen'... But what I heard after the rehearsal, I didn't bother. I thought to myself that I wanted to have my own group, so it felt like to be a giveaway to be in the Techniques, y'know. In them time also I wanted my own, so I form the Cables.

Q: How did you find the environment at Studio One? Can you recall the first songs you recorded there?

A: Yeah, the first song I did when I went to Studio One and we got selected, and at the recording Jackie Mittoo was there and Roland Alphonso, those guys. It was a great feel for us because Studio One was producin' all the hits and stuff like that. And the mainstays for recording was Tommy McCook, Jackie Mittoo. He was finding an excuse 'No, I don't have the time today 'cause I'm doing this stuff that isn't finished yet', and he come out of the studio and go across the street drinkin' beer and stuff. Believe me, one a the time I got upset and say, "Why you deal with me like that?", y'know. "We have something to do, so just do it". I have to stop my work for this, and he's still not doing it - "What's up?", y'know. And he's kind of like a lickle jumpy guy.

Q: Jackie was?

A: Yes, Jackie Mittoo. Yeah. And I curse him up one day, and he said, "OK! OK, OK!! Tomorrow you can definitely come, come and let me see what you have". You know, like he want to intimidate (laughs)! So we went and our time to record, y'know, and me and Leroy just said to sing our song and say it's our time. And Jackie say, "OK, it's a big t'ing to let me see what you have" (chuckles). I have a guitar and I start to play my chords. You know, when you write the song you created a horn (part) and stuff, y'know. 'Ta dadaa ta da', stuff like that. And you play towards the beat and then you start singin'. Man, I stand up - one of my feet up and the guitar restin' on my knee, and then my knee start tremble (laughs)! That's when Jackie Mittoo say, "Alright, let me see what you have". So, we start singin' and I blow like the intro with my mouth, like 'ta dam ta da daa'. And he said, "OK, that sounds good", and he sat around the keyboard, y'know, he catch on to the melody and he played it on the keyboards. He told the others standing around to 'OK, play it', and they start playing it. In just a few minutes or so they get excited and run it smooth and nice, and that was it. It was good, y'know. And Leroy was playing bass - Leroy Heptone.

Q: And this is around '67?

A: Yeah, '67. No - early '68. Early '68, because we put that music down right in that time. Either late'67 or early '68.

Q: With the Sound Dimension band.

A: Yeah. Leroy played bass, Jackie did the keyboards, and right away they created a sound there. Jackie had his way with the arrangement. But it sound so different in them times because that's when reggae started. When reggae started they created that 'doo dom de' - you know? So we did that song and then we did 'What Kind of World' the same day. And then we went back and did some more later on.

Q: So Leroy handled the bass, but who was the drummer for you?

A: I forgot the guy's name that played the drums.

Q: Hugh Malcolm, Bunny Williams, Tin Leg?

A: No, it wasn't Hugh. I know that guy's name... Fil?

Q: Fil Callender? He was later in the In Crowd band.

A: I don't remember if it's Callender, although I remember his name was Fil. Yeah, Fil played drums. 'Little Fil', man.

Q: He played in the In Crowd band in the early to late seventies.

A: The In Crowd! Yeah, Fil used to play with the In Crowd too, yes. I heard Fil got sick though. You know, the other day I saw a guy, I forgot his name, and he was reminding me who he was, and he told me about Fil. In Crowd was the band that backed us on some music, I think for Hugh Madden.

Q: Hugh Madden, he was the guy behind the Electro label if I'm not mistaken, pretty unknown.

A: Electro, right. Hugh Madden, that was my good friend.

Q: What happened to him, he's not there anymore, in Jamaica?

A: No, he's in Jamaica, he has a store on King Street. He opened a retail store on King Street, he's had it a long time. Every time I go to Jamaica I see Hugh. He even said to me once that we did one of the music, 'A Sometime Girl' (sings the chorus): 'A sometime girl, that's what you are, you belong to a sometime man...'. It has a riddim, man. I know that riddim is good work now, man. Very great.

Q: So how much was cut in that first session for Studio One, not more than two songs you said?

A: The first session? The first session we only did about two music, and then after that Downbeat call us in to do more. You know, we went in a few times and we do songs. I think we did about fourteen songs, we did not do more than that because we ain't gonna load them up, because we're not getting money so why load them up?

Q: Yeah.

A: Then after that we went to Harry J. Harry J wanted us to sing although we had a contract with Downbeat for two years.

Q: You had to sign with Coxson.

A: Yeah, we signed a contract with him at the time. We didn't even know what we signed (laughs)! But his contract wasn't anything big even in them times, it's for two years. Then we branched out. Harry J wanted us to sign too, make it for him. I couldn't. But one of his artists was Herbie Carter at the time, who did 'Happy Time'. And he just couldn't sing! So when they were about to voice it I went by, and while I was at the studio I just voiced it. I changed my voice a little, and I go in and sing the harmony. But 'Happy Time' is really Cables. We just let them put the name 'Herbie Carter', because we were on contract and stuff. And when I voiced it you wouldn't think it's Cables.

Q: When I spoke to Prince Alla (Keith Blake) last year he mentioned a tune that was nicked from his first group, The Leaders. 'Happy Time' was supposedly written by them, and Herbie Carter just picked it up. But it's origin belongs to the Leaders, they wrote it.

A: They did? I didn't know that, y'know. They said it's his and Herbie say it's his song, but I heard somebody else had claimed the song. Somebody else claimed that song. All I know I did is just sing it, I thought it is Herbie's, I heard it from Harry J. So maybe Herbie heard it while he was hangin' out with them?

Q: Yep.

A: But somebody else claimed that song.

Q: Yes, because apparently Herbie had passed them singin' it somewhere and he got involved and 'borrowed' it. They were supposed to do it through him but he wasn't heard from again. When he took in a sound system somewhere in Kingston, Prince Alla discovered that it was their track playing by someone else and later on he saw a gold record in Harry J's office - 'Happy Time' by Herbie Carter. That's what I recall being told then anyway.

A: And he didn't even sing it (chuckles). He didn't even sing that song, because he was trying to. So maybe it's true, because he was trying to but he couldn't sing, he just could not sing it and could not sound good. And that's the time when we just voiced it. I mean, he gained so much popularity of that music, 'cause it was a hit and he gained so much popularity, man. And he can't sing a line! It was later that Harry reprint it and put 'Herbie Carter & The Cables'. It was like that. I have one of the records here, he reprint it now and put something different on it.

Q: How effective was the Studio One band in those days - it's one or two rehearsals at most, and then they'd cut it?

A: Yeah. Because, you see, musicians in Jamaica are so great... than a lot of other musicians, they're not reading the music, it's just stylistic. And you're listening and you'd get it and you just improvise and somebody plays it and you feel something else and you say 'Just play that there with that', and the other guy try it and say 'Yes!' There they'd fit in something, y'know, and that's how it goes. And you'd run it down two times and it's there, y'know.

Q: Another thing is that Coxson had his own studio to give musicians freedom to work longer, freedom to experiment, freedom to spend time on arrangements and fool around a little without having to rush it, looking at the clock all the time. You had that space and time.

A: Of course, you have the time. And sometime a guy come in there in the morning, say nine o'clock, and they don't leave there until one o'clock the next morning. Also because they're doing different, different guys recording, and with the music they're not trying to make it sound the same way. You know, so you become creative. You'd become very creative, you're trying not to make the same bassline, you don't make the bassline sound like the other songs or stuff like that.

Q: These songs come from a period in the music where you had to create something original and strong to be able to compete, unlike now (laughs)! It's not just the same effort or even originality for that matter. But obviously I'm not knocking nobody that it's an effort even today, it certainly is, but far off compared to those days.

A: Yes, you had to, definitely. Definitely. But, you see, in them time you will have different musician playing, so everybody provide something. The other guy will play his lead guitar, you will hear the bassman playing something and someone is coming to him and he say 'Try this'. And he tried it, and it sounds good. If it don't fit, they don't bother. The keyboard man he may hear something that would sound great and he says it to the other guys. So, everybody work together and create something, and improvise and stuff, y'know, that the other guy play and t'ing and he may sound better, stuff like that. So you will have like lead guitar, rhythm guitar, bass, drums and you have keyboards, y'know, you have the percussion and you have the hornsman. The hornsman they may hear something and say: "Oh, you should play that, the bass sounds better if you have the...". So you have all these people playing, a seven-piece playing also. Now, with the electronic thing you have one man playing, and he's playing the different stuff that he'd dub - overdub, so is just one man idea! You know what I mean? Is just a one man thing. So, is much creativeness more than just one creative one, coming out of that one person. Sometime it becomes so stagnated in a way that, I mean, what he's hearing there's not a thing that can make it sound better, but it can come out of it, alone. So, to me, the now music, it can never sound the way it's supposed to sound. Because, number one: it's all electronic, computerized stuff. You can't get that warm sound now. But in some ways, it's good too - in a sense, y'know, everything you need is there. But them days everything was coming from inside, everything was coming from within - it's coming with the feel and the love. And both writing and playing a song - you'd have to visualise, it had to be alive, y'know, to get what you really want. You're looking at the other person who listen the song, something that can uplift and do something to the other person. You're playing an instrument, you try to build something that can push somebody, some way. Nowadays you don't have that feeling, just like how the world change. Nobody cares. You know, people just live. People just war for something, that's how it is now. That is how it is nowadays. No creativity, no lovin'. I don't mean just definitely singin' a song about love - I'm talkin' about the love to sing. So it's something special that come out of them days. You know, you don't find that no more. But, what created this music in the seventies and so on, it had so much creativeness and love in it that it still touching people now. So, even the other person, the younger generation, or stuff like that, they're hearing something. They're still hearing a feeling, a feeling in that music that they had no choice but just to, y'know, react to it. You understand what I'm saying?

Q: Sure.

A: Yeah, that's the way I think. It's just like for instance, Bobby Dockery is one of the guy that, with Stewy and Roy - I mean when Roy left Jamaica and stuff I brought in Bobby Dockery in the group, 'Wanna join the Cables?', y'know. This was from in the seventies, come up to now, and he's talkin' the other day when we decide to do some recording. We have a nice music we intend to release now, but then I just ease out. But we tried to put that creativeness in the music, and trust me it had and I know if it goes out it could do something, because it's different with everyday music out there. And I laid the song, I sang it, I put harmony in, and it's different. Very, very different. The people wanna hear that but then he's a guy who's jumpy, very difficult to get along with. And I put up with his ways too much. He start to (inaudiable) an' stuff like that, and things that don't get my approval, and I just said, "You know something? Forget about it". And I just left everything there right in his hands. I don't care what I spent, y'know, I just left it there and leave him alone. If he want he can put that music out, and it could be something. Because that song is different in it, the arrangement and stuff. You know, everything is OK, you hear it a different thing and stuff. When you hear a Cables song it's original. Everything. And people wanna hear now because people wanna hear something new and creative. And we have that, but he messed up. Maybe all of this was for a good reason, because the good news is that I've spoken with my original guys, even though they're in the church and stuff like that, I gave them time to think it over. And they think it over and, y'know, they decide that it's something that they love - and not because they're in the Church that should not stop them from continue with what we used to do, because we sing songs of love and stuff like that. They think that is good enough, and they decide that we should be together. The original, the true original Cables. So, they think about that and it's in the making, it's gonna happen.

Q: Good to have the foundation of the group out there.

A: The foundation, yeah. It will be here again, it will be. I have two shows now in New York for the month of May. I go down to Baltimore where they live and do some rehearsal and stuff. One of them has equipment there, I could just lay a song there and let they do harmony. I could go down, maybe even once a month an' stay there and do some rehearsal. So, that's what we decided to do. After a while (chuckles) when he hear that 'Yes bwoy, Cables will reunite', I don't know how he's gonna feel because the world know him as one in the Cables, 'cause that's what make him proud of the person he is. But then he just won't calm down, he just won't calm himself. And I'm a calm person, it's a difference.

Q: Meaning Bobby Dockery.

A: Yeah. At one time, man, in Jamaica his actions - and I just forget about him, and came to New York and I don't see him for years, over twenty years. I mean, when I came to Florida here somebody told me that when they told him about it he's going crazy. And when I saw him he was the happiest person, because he tried so much all through that time, and he just can't make it. For improvement, I get another guy - no, Stewy used to come over here from Baltimore and we rehearse and do one or two shows and stuff like that. Everybody down here now know him as Cables and stuff like that, because he's that type of guy, like, to build in the limelight and show himself, and so and so and so. Everybody knows. But he won't calm himself, man. And I've told him, if he'd listen everything would be better. He has no principles. I've decided now that I will go with my group, and I'm part of the foundation, me and my group is part of the foundation. And I think now we need to inherit something out of it. We deserved better, we're not ignorant, I think we have the popularity, we have the right appearance and stuff. We gonna do a few things and try to make something out of it. This year I've said, what, I'm gonna start off and do a few shows. I had to hook up with those guys, because people recognise the group so much - people rate the music, more than I thought at that time. People would meet me and people would say 'Man, why you wasting your time so much! You're Cables man, I wish I was like you, I wish I had the popularity like you'. You know, stuff like that. People curse me up sometime, they're saying 'You're too late out, man. You ought to do something, man'.

Q: And now is the right time to do it.

A: Now is the right time. And y'know, I'm doing this interview and I hope too somewhere along the line it can hook up something too. I wanna look shows abroad, stuff like that. I wanna go back in the studio and do songs, we have songs and stuff. There's so much I wanna do now. I'm gonna do it. I'm starting up, I'm doing shows, whatever, going out there again.