Q: Yes, but you must've discovered at some point from pretty early on your ability to write and express yourself well. A: Yeah, I know I could write. Because when I was in school I was in class with all the other children, they were white, English people, and I was the best in english. I was the only black in the class in my stream, because I was in the top stream (chuckles). I was always good at english. My father was a good influence, because I used to have to write letters for him. Because his spelling wasn't any good, so I used to write his letters. He used to like writing letters. He complained about everything, y'know. So he would dictate and make a lotta mistakes, and I would just do it right and read it back to him. And he'd like that. So I learned a lot from that. And then I know I was good in school, so I must've communicated that to Charlie Gillett. He knew I could write somehow, I don't know how he know really. 'Cause, as I said, I wasn't in his class or nutten, but he may have known from someone else, from some of the other teachers. 'Cause I used to do economics at this Kingsway College. He spoke to them and I used to do English literature. So, he knew what I was doing in my classes. So yes, eventually I started work. I started writing this first, this column every month, called 'Do The Reggae'. Q: (Chuckles) A: It was wonderful to see your name in print!

Q: Sure (laughs). A: And to read back what I had written. And it sounded good, and people who know you, when you show it to them, then you're good to know that they think so for themselves, that you could be doing this. So you keep up the standard. Q: But at that time, what I've been told, I mean you had the occasional reviews of Jamaican records in papers like the New Musical Express or Melody Maker, Record Mirror, whatever, in the mid to late sixties, on ska and rock steady and the early reggae. But as far as I know, through the association with Trojan and B&C, Chris Blackwell and all of that, what I'm told is that this guy Dave Betteridge (credit to Mr de Koningh, of 'Young Gifted & Black - The Story of Trojan Records' fame), he was the first one to have like a small column ever in an English publication on reggae, in Blues & Soul magazine in about 1970. The first one to have any so called serious coverage of Jamaican releases. But can you recall the attitude in general in English media towards reggae at that time, what that was like? Did you have anyone, like in the Caribbean-English press, who covered it seriously? A: No, there wasn't. I mean, them know about Desmond Dekker and Derrick Morgan and Jimmy Cliff. Q: But they looked upon it as some sort of novelty music? A: Novelty music, because it made you feel... Max Romeo, 'Wet Dream', you had one or two tune that get through to the pop stations, and those were always the ones that were novelty soundin'. So, like I said, Desmond Dekker, those were the earliest people that they liked. And then there came Toots who Island Records tried so hard to push. They liked Toots, but he never really captured the big audience that Island was pushing him to. But Jimmy Cliff did, through the film ('The Harder They Come') and then Bob Marley. But then, at that time, Blues & Soul, when I started writing I was introduced to Blues & Soul, I never know about it. I dunno how long they had been doing it for before I started, but I think maybe it was every other week or every other issue or... I can't really remember. But sometimes it wasn't there, a lickle column (chuckles). Chris Lane, I never know who he was, but he used to do a lickle t'ing deh. And it read to me like someone who really liked reggae music, what he was hearing, y'know. But that was all there was on a regular basis. And then I come along with the Let It Rock, and from then they started the IPC. IPC was the big owners of all these newspapers like, I dunno, so much now, but at the time it was Record Mirror... no, Sounds, New Musical Express, Melody Maker. Yeah. But they decided to put out Black Music as a monthly instead of a weekly, a monthly glossy black music magazine. Q: How did that come about, that you... A: They knew about me, through Let It Rock. I wouldn't have applied. Again, I didn't know if I could hold down a job working for a magazine full-time now. Because doing it for Let It Rock I was workin', I was working as a clerk, issuing driving licenses. That was my first job, I was issuing driving license on Black Prince Road as a clerical officer. Q: (Chuckles) A: (Chuckles) Yeah, beca' you have to have five O levels fe get that job, and I got that job. And my first daughter was coming, so I had to have a job. (Chuckles) So that was when I got my firs' job. But it was a very boring job. Q: I can imagine that. A: Yeah man, stifling job. Well, it was a different world, I was totally free when I start working for Let It Rock at first. You see, when I start doing those monthly columns for Let It Rock, that was like a new phase as well. Beca' people start to see what else I could do, and then I use to see it. Even I start to see it. And then Time Out, as time went on people, when they want to do something on reggae music, they get in touch with me. Yeah. But as I say, Black Music they got their editor first, which was Alan Lewis who was with Melody Maker before that. And he became the editor for Black Music, 'cause he used to write about R&B for Melody Maker. Then they got Tony Cummings, I dunno who... I think he used to write for Jazz & Blues or something. Not Blues & Soul, some other... yeah, regular magazine. And he knew about the Northern (soul) scene especially, so they got me and him. He to do the soul music on the whole, and me to do reggae music for Black Music. They had a lot of other applications, applicants, people who thought they could do a better job. But they just wanted me, having seen what I had done in Let It Rock. So I took it. And that was the start of it. And I just go into it, yunno, the best I could (chuckles).

Q: Became the staff writer, even. A: Yeah, I was employed as a staff writer, me and Tony Cummings who used to do the R&B. Q: In detail, what was your responsibilities in wider terms as being 'staff writer'? A: Yeah, I had to do everything with reggae music that you see in there, everything that you saw in there, I did that. And that means writing all the articles, editing them. There was nobody else actually writing any, it was me. And eventually even deciding my own titles. At first, the headlines to the stories, the editor would do that, but then after a while I would start giving them my own headline, and they say yeah. 'Cause I could see what he was doing, y'know, for a headline. And laying it out, and editing better, y'know, improving as you go along. At first I was just used to follow the style of what I used to do in Let It Rock. But then even the editor suggested that I expand what I'm saying more. Q: That was what I was about to ask you, how you developed that style. You wrote more personal after a while, instead of following this boring type of 'journalistic formula', like the book of rules. A: Yeah. But I think that started after I had become more confident, that wasn't how I used to write at first. At first I would just do an interview and more or less just repeat back what was said on the tape, and just trying to spruce it up. But after a while you get bored with doing that, you just wanna tell them more about your people. Actually that was my whole thing, was to - 'cause I was finding out myself now, too, and my own people who love reggae music. Yeah, beca' you had to go 'mongst them as a reporter and they become friends. As a reporter, the people get to know who you are and they react and say yeah, them a look forward to see what you write next time. So, in the community I used to go to clubs and keep up to date with what's playing. I used to do that anywhere, it was just part of my lifestyle and I was just writin' about my lifestyle after a while. Yeah, I put more of that into it in order to make it more interesting. I wanted to promote the music, that was the main incentive, was to promote the music. Q: What was the vibes like among the Black Music staff at the time? A: The staff? Q: Yeah, did you find it encouraging what you tried to accomplish for the magazine, and ultimately for the music itself? A: No, sometimes I didn't. We had a little office, and it was... the editor, he sat there all day. He'd go out for a drink at lunch time. It was me in one corner and Tony Cummings in another corner and the secretary in another corner (giggles). Right, so there's four of us in the office every day. The secretary's name was Jo, she answered the phone. But she was supposed to help us with our work, but I never let her do it. 'Cause I give it to her once to do some transcribing from a tape, and she never do it good. So I never trust her again. So, me and her never have much conversation. But apart from that we get on good. It's a good team. But you know, it's just four people in the office and then phone calls coming in, packages coming in from record companies, people coming to see the editor and then the editor would direct them to me or Tony. 'Cause they come in to promote their things or they would leave their records or their press release. And then you might go and interview them, set up an interview (chuckles). It's just like that. But it's interesting because you get to find out more about people who are in the news. Q: It's so funny or even 'exotic' now, but those were the good old days of the typewriters, the reel-to-reel tape machine, the fax machines, and now you have e-mails and internet or iPods or whatever. These were much slower times and more 'primitive' and you had to... A: Yeah, and it's better. You see, you had to rely on your own skill more. Well, that's how life should be. Q: But you didn't work with a reel-to-reel did you, you had a cassette player/recorder in those days too? A: No, no. Yeah, I had a little cassette. Q: It was beginning to be more common in those times. A: Yeah, but I think I had a tiny little cassette, that's all. And sometime (chuckles)... no, I cyaan remember how it going too bad. Maybe one or two times, sometimes it never tape so good, certain words might get missing. But you'd have to listen real good. And you know what? At first you had to be real persistent, I had to be with some a dem artists. Beca' some a dem was really boring to interview. One of the most boring persons to interview was Gregory Isaacs (as shown in Carl's 1975 feature on GI). Q: Have a personal experience there too. Maybe it's about introversion. A: (Chuckles) Yeah. Well, I dunno, I think maybe he's just a very introverted person really. Q: And not particularly interested in talking about himself, some are like that. A: No, he's not interested, that's the first impression I get. Other artists were, they knew the value of it, but he never seem to know or care really. So he never put nutten into it, never put much into it. But the best people I ever interviewed fe talkin': Peter Tosh and Bob Marley, Bunny Wailer. (Chuckles) Really, it's the whole three. The three a dem, and others that... even I Jah Man. Keith Hudson was my friend. Lots of other people really, but when it comes to people who know why they're doing music and what they're doing, Peter Tosh and Bob Marley and even Bunny Wailer.

Q: I think for some reason why you got that 'result' in your interviews, obviously you were both, almost whoever you interviewed, black and African-Jamaicans, and that's a big part why you could get them to open up more, they simply felt safe with that and that you could interpret the dialect, the language, their philosophy or type of reasoning and what they said better than most, as a Jamaican yourself. A: Easier, yeah. So they could talk. Q: So they could relax more and speak more freely on the subject. A: Yeah, them can relax and we just talk, and I find that refreshing. I mean, I find that get me more confident, beca' you get to know the people on a different level. Beca' we just put on the tape and we just talk. And it's as if - beca' after a while, I tell you, after meeting certain people you go back to see them differently. Not as a journalis', you go back to talk to dem and you jus' talk about life. And if you go to Jamaica you might see them. I might go to their place and just reason with them on a different level. So I get to know artists like that. You know the only person, the only big artis' I never interviewed was Dennis Brown. But I did talk to him. Q: How come? A: Well, I think before I came to Jamaica I never really do anything. You see, when I came to Jamaica firs' and could give an interview, by that time I think somebody else wanted to do it and I wasn't so interested. He wasn't one of my favourite musicians really. But I recognise his great ability. But it's just that, I don't know if it's because he's younger or what, but the feeling with him was more like an entertainer. But he's a very polished singer, yeah. He's one of the best singers. But I think I'd like to hear it a bit rougher, or a bit more natural... Q: With an 'edge' to it. A: Edge, more edge, y'know. Yeah, yes I. Dennis Brown is a great artis', but him change as well along the way, change with the influence of Gregory Isaacs. Q: How did your relationship to Bob Marley evolve during the seventies? Because you did an interview with him for Let It Rock first in the early seventies and then you interviewed him several times for Black Music. A: Yeah, from that first interview we did we get to know each other well. Because I think that was the first time he was interviewed by a black reporter, he told me that as well. That was in 1972. And yeah, it was one of the earlier times when they were here, and I went to a flat to meet them. We set up the interview at Kings Road. Wya (Lindo) was there as well, all the band was there, including Wya and Bunny Wailer. But they went out to Kings Road to do some shopping, and Bob was there to do the interview. But Bob Marley, he was very small at the time, he was smaller. He seemed to have been smaller than he eventually became. He never used to - it's like him woulda smoke more than eat. Q: Oh. A: Yeah, beca' we sit down, him never have nutten on but his underpants (chuckles), we jus' siddung on the middle of the floor, like two hippie, y'know. Q: (Laughs) A: And put the tape recorder, a lickle tape recorder, and we just talk. But him do most of the talkin', and I would just ask a few questions and him jus' talk an' talk and it was long, tape after tape. (Chuckles) And he was glad fe meet someone like me, a Jamaican. So from that I really liked him. And I never would've imagined that he would've been so small, 'cause I was taller than him. And he was skinny. It was impressive, because he talk a lot and seemed to know a lot. And smoke a lot of herb. Q: (Chuckles) A: I used to smoke herb, but not much, like once in a while. But when I see how much him smoke I say "Whaaa'?" (chuckles). You know, he woulda smoke chalice that day.

Q: How did you find the development on those records as the years passed by? A: Yeah, I think it got better, right. The first album was good, I knew it was gonna be different. Something was happening there. The sound was different, I was waiting to hear sounds like that in reggae music. Because I was saying it like 'You know, if I was doing it I would concentrate on more mature ways of putting across my lyrics and also would put in elements of rock music to give it a wider appeal without lose the roots', and this is exactly what them do. So I like that. Especially the first album, and I think the second album wasn't up to my expectation, 'Burnin'', and it was because them never really put in the amount of time and togetherness on it. They were breakin' up too. Because, really, Blackwell only wanted Bob, and the others could sense that. So they had reached a time when they had to split and 'Natty Dread' now was really Bob Marley doing what he wanted to do, he was more freer. So wha' him do, he look back 'pon him life. And you see, at that time the album didn't have to be split into threes, three singers, lead singers, so he did all the songs. And so that was a high point, 'Natty Dread', at the time y'know. People don't play it much now, but that was a really high point in Bob Marley's music, that was the main one. And that was because of 'Talkin' Blues', 'Them Belly Full', 'Roadblock' an' dem tune deh. And then after a while 'No Woman No Cry' become a hit, but it wasn't a hit at the time when the album come out, it was after when they put out the 'Live' version. And then after that 'Rastaman Vibration' was good, but that was a very kind of American feel to it. I remember going to LA on tour with them, to write about them, and it looked like Hollywood... the Wailers arrive in Hollywood, because it's a different world out there now. And it look big, the whole t'ing, the tour an' everyt'ing, and it was a big billboard with the 'Rastaman Vibration' album cover. Yeah. And with the I Threes on the big touring part and so on, everything was swimming. But I thought that that album wasn't up to scratch of 'Natty Dread' either. But it was more sophisticated in some ways I guess. Q: But there's the criticism of that whole Wailers 'reggae band' thing as not being representative of genuine Jamaican music and what it used to be; music for records, sound system. Not concert venue music so to speak, adjusted to the white world, 'rock oriented'. A: Yeah, that's right, clubs and concert. It becomes concert venue music after a while, beca' that's what everyone was aiming for who was brave enough. Actually other people get the chance but them never use up the full potential of it. You see, it couldn't just stay as a sound system market thing, otherwise it would just remain in Jamaica. It would just remain in Jamaica and a few people around the world would know about it and play it. But you see, it needed to be put on a high level, media wise, through Bob Marley and through Island, and that's what happened. They did that through 'I Shot The Sheriff', and they started with that and through the politics and the shootin' involved in Jamaica, them use up that for the media. They use that fe catapultin' to the rest of the world. It worked good and you can see that like a prophecy come true. Beca' that was always Bob Marley & The Wailers them aim to go bigger, like the Beatles, y'know. Ca' they saw themselves as superstars really, so why shouldn't they try and make as much of it as they could? You know, black people from Jamaica and all over the world where you see the pop music, their stars and their fans screaming about them, screamin' at them and playing at big concerts, they want to do the same thing really. They dream of it, but then it's only one or two who can manifest it to reality. So, it happened for Jimmy Cliff through the movie, and then with Bob Marley. And others weren't as willing to do that as well, 'cause they weren't so willing before, yunno, to go on tour. With the Rasta vibes, part of the culture seh 'we're not going to go and do what Babylon want you fe do, fe go back and tour and slave for Babylon, fe mek money fe dem'. So, that's one argument. But some a dem weren't really ready to do that trip, they were only ready to go and play a show like Desmond Dekker, but he ended up living in Englan' anyway. But some were just glad to come over and do a couple of shows, get some money and go back to Jamaica and live. That was the outlook. You don't really know what's going on in the music world, you just want to sell as much music as you can in Jamaica and then the rest of the outside world as well, if you can. So yeah, really, it was very much a Jamaican thing until the advent of Bob Marley & The Wailers. Jimmy Cliff really before that, Jimmy Cliff too. And they tried it with Toots, them try it with Desmond Dekker but it was only in Englan' it come out like that, a European reggae artis' (chuckles).

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Article: Peter I (Please do not reproduce without permission)