Q: They were never a bit paranoid to speak to you because of the impact their words would do? A: No, no. The only person who was ever paranoid was Junior Byles. Q: Ah. A: Junior Byles I arranged a couple of times to meet, and I think he never turned up. And then one time when we find that he turn up and I asked him a question, and he didn't answer (laughs)! And he didn't talk. Q: But he was and is one of a kind, went through a special pain at that time. A: Yeah. (Laughs) I couldn't stop laughing! Q: Why did you quit writing for Black Music in '77? A: I didn't quit. They didn't want to use my music writings anymore! They didn't want to pay me. Q: Is that so? A: Yeah. I didn't quit. I was depending on that money to survive in Jamaica, but they didn't want to take it from here anymore. They promised to pay me a certain amount every month, and then I would send them things, but sometime they didn't use it. And I guess they didn't want to pay me and after a while they said they couldn't continue, so they stopped it. I didn't quit. Because they got someone else to take my job (Afro specialist Chris May took over reggae duties in BM at this point) and the artists were coming over to England anyway, most of the time. The ones they wanted to talk about. They didn't care about the lesser known ones, as long as they could interview the ones whose records were out and were expected to be written about, they did that and that was enough for their coverage. And they would do it quite well I suppose. You know, so they kept up that certain amount of reggae coverage, but it wasn't the same anymore. 'Cause they weren't wide enough in their listening to reggae music. They get rid of me and had another writer to do it in London. And all they did was just review and write about artists who came to London who was already well known. So that was it. And it dwindled after that. And then Black Music, I dunno exactly when they shut down, but I wasn't a part of it anymore. And I didn't use to see it. Q: I think they stopped publishing in about '84 or the year after. A: I was long gone from the scene then. Q: That sort of destroyed a myth that you quit and moved deeper into Rastafari at that time. A: But that is true, but that's not why I 'quit'. You still have to live, y'know. I never quit as I said. Yeh, definitely I was harder to find. If you come to Jamaica to find me you couldn't know where to find me for instance. But I had an address. I cyaan remember if I had a P.O. box number. But if they had wanted my work, I did a few... I remember one was... Q: I think the last one featured Yabby You, the Cables and Carl Dawkins, among others. A: Yeah. And that deejay... Q: Ranking Joe? A: No, 'Three Piece Suit (An' T'ing)'... Q: Trinity. A: Yeh, Trinity. But I don't even know if they used that one.

Trinity

Dillinger

Q: They did actually, along with Dillinger I think. A: They did? All right. Yeah, that was one of the last ones I remember. But they just didn't want to pay me no more. So they wrote me a letter and said they couldn't afford to do it, so no more work for me. So I had to put out Jah Ugliman. That's when I put that out, I didn't quit for that. But no matter, I needed the money. So I was getting more deeper as a Rasta, yes, that's why I go to Jamaica, to live a fuller Rasta life. That's why I returned to Jamaica really. Q: But you could see something special blooming on the Jamaican scene, that's at the point when you went back in '75. A: That was the first time, and then I used to go back every year. I used to go back to Jamaica every year just to link up and meet a couple of family people, and then my mother started coming out there as well. Yes, so I used to go back there and stay a few weeks with my nephew. And just to report what was going on there as well. Through the music, that's why it gave me more interest to come. Q: I guess that's what happens sometimes, but you went down at a very difficult time on the island and especially Kingston, the political violence increased at that particular time. A: I had experience of that, man. I mean, when was the election...? '76. Well, even so, I had experience while being there... it must've been the nex' election. Q: 1980. A: Yeah, when I was dragged off a bus, twice, just because I was on the bus as a Rasta passing through certain areas, and them drag me off the bus (chuckles). Q: It was really like war zones back then. A: Yeah man, war zones, man. And I was on the bus, there was shots flying and the bus driver wouldn't stop the bus, he was swaying all over the road, y'know. And then everybody was bawling out for murder and stopped the bus, and someone saying: "Keep drivin', driver! Don't stop!" And there was other groups saying: "Stop, driver! We waan fe come off!" And then they blocked the road, that was the same Hagley Park Road from Spanish Town Road to Half Way Tree. And they block the road and we had to stop, and everybody come off the bus. Gunman, y'know. Like a mob, and they pull everybody off and then they let everybody on - except me (laughs)! So I thought that was the end of me. And everybody bawling out seh "Let him go, don't do it! He's a Rasta, yunno". 'Cause some a dem knew me. But all I could say, 'cause they was ruffing me up, all I had was me bag with Jah Ugliman in it, and I told them: "Look man, I'm a Rastaman, I don't deal with politics an' violence, I don't know nutten 'bout no argument". So them say: "Wha' yu 'ave in the bag?" I said I have my book that I publish, Jah Ugliman. Them tek it out an' look at it. And that's the reason why they let me go, 'cause they say 'Yes, he's a Rasta'. The bus was waiting for me still, yunno. And they put me bag on the bus. And that happened again further up on the road, exactly the same t'ing 'appen. So yeah, I feel very relieved to reach home safe that day (laughs)! Q: Naturally. A: And there was another time when I was robbed one early morning. I was leaving Waterhouse area to go downtown to meet my mother coming from country. And them rob and hold me. It was dark 'cause it was about five o'clock in the mornin', and they pulled me over into some building, like a disused, broken down building. And I could see other people in there as well who were sittin' on the floor, they'd dragged them off the street, a group of robbers. All of us. And we had to sit down, and them rob you. They rob you, we didn't know if we was gonna live. (Chuckles) Ca' we're just there an' they tell you: "Keep quiet or you get shot!" And we just stayed there, and after a while I raised me head and looked through the window - 'cause there was no glass, y'know, it's just a window, and looked through... and they were gone. And everybody jus' felt relieved and get up and go 'bout their business. And then a few days later I was told that those guys got shot by police. 'Cause people just strugglin' to live, they just rob anybody. And they hadn't much to rob anyway. Q: Mad days. A: It is, yunno. But you see, it's because they don't have no other way out. There's no industry in Jamaica, there's no employment. The only employment is for people who are friends of families. Like the stores down in Kingston, for example, they employ people who have always worked for them and their sons, the banks, and so on. They employ their class of people, uptown people and their children after them. And it stays with them. You cyaan come from the ghetto and expect to be employed.

Q: I mean, talking about the seventies, in your opinion, how come that that era had such an enduring impact or appeal on people, it has never left and is still affecting much of the music now. You had a part in it so you should know. A: Well, it's because I think, first of all, it was the first time that reggae music becomes truly international beginning with Desmond Dekker, slowly. And then Jimmy Cliff, 'The Harder They Come', the film. And then you had Toots - and this is in Britain, from British point of view. And then Toots & The Maytals was quite popular here, they try hard with them, Island Records did. And then of course Bob Marley. So all that 'appen in reggae music and it cause all the singers in Jamaica to try and push out more as well. Beca' the music industry was becoming more financially bouyant. Because the producers in Jamaica were expanding, trying to expand, and to deal with record companies here. There were more and more people producing records, because everybody was singin'. Everybody was tryin' to sing their message, which is from a point of view of suffering, living the life of how they used to live in Jamaica. Most of the singers come from the ghetto part of town. So, them have something to sing 'bout. And the type of message come across very strong here, because the blacks here identify with the message, which was cultural and intense. So it was a time of a search in yourself as a black man or woman, in London. And the music help a lot to do that. 'Cause we have our own culture, we have our own music circles, we have our own entertainment... for the first time, beca' the late sixties wasn't like that really. It start with the sound system, but then when the music tek off, through the sales of music - remember that the only program we had in the late sixties was Steve Barnard on the radio playing reggae music once a week, I think it was Sundays ('Reggae Time' on Radio London). Q: When did he start? A: Ah! I don't know, but that must've been in the late sixties, maybe '69. '70, maybe around that time. Q: And it had a great impact. A: Yeah, because it was the first one, and everyone tune in to that. So as well as the music scene, going out at nights at weekends, we also have someone on the radio. So the promotion increase, we try to make it increase a bit. And groups start getting more work... I'm talkin' about groups like Cimarons and Matumbi now, they started doing better in terms of playing live and things like that. Q: What was the club scene for bands in those days? A: I only know of two bands really, at the time, Matumbi and Cimarons. Q: You had Greyhound. A: Oh yes, Greyhound. Greyhound was the biggest one, with Freddie Notes & The Rudies. You know, the Greyhound, the lead singer was Freddie Notes innit? Q: Yes. A: Yeh, him used to sing in a group named Freddie Notes & The Rudies, you know that? Q: Yes, at least about The Rudies (they later switched name to Greyhound, and as the Rudies served as a back-up band for visiting Jamaican acts). A: Yeah, Freddie Notes & The Rudies. Is a local man, him was from my area, South East London I'm quite sure. So when you know the singers, the local singers, it mek it more interestin' as well, and it make it more interesting that our music was being played on the radio. So it just boom, it jus' boomed. Beca' after that you had 'The Harder They Come' and Desmond Dekker was popular at that time. And yeah, 'The Harder They Come' do a l o t, yunno, beca' that film touch a lot of people and eventually everyone who see it. Not just black people, not just Jamaican people, but the whole community was stronger then. I think all the Caribbean people used to go to our scene. When I say 'our scene' I mean our Jamaican sound system dance and clubs. But now it's not like that. You find mostly only Jamaicans. And it's a lot more split up into different types of music in England now, in London, you find certain sounds only play roots music, and you get a certain crowd, like some Rasta. And then you have a dancehall scene - they don't mix at all, y'know. You have a dancehall scene, and then you have a Lovers Rock scene. So all those three, they don't find these people in the same dance at all. No, to be truthful, the Lovers Rock and the ragga might cross over sometime, some people from one will go to the other. But really, it's three different scene completely. And then you have another scene where black and white meet and it's a kind of oldies version. But, before that, with these black and white encounters you will find that people like (David) Rodigan is the purveyor of that. And you have others who are doing it, like some local DJ's, black DJ who play to that type of audience. Because they play a type of old reggae music from the seventies and maybe a kinda more cheerful type of reggae music. But you don't get much message there. So that's the type of music for - not even Rodigan, but a lot of other little DJ's who like fe take their lickle sound out, they might have a radio show, and play with a black and white audience. Some people just like to go to reggae where there's just black and white, not one or the other. But you also have now a few white DJ's who play reggae music too, like a white DJ, he's from Swindon I think. He have the lingo, the Jamaican accent, and he's well known. But, going back to the seventies, yea, everything was blooming like spring in reggae music.

Greyhound

Q: When you went out to a dance in those days, up to like the mid seventies when it got more 'hardcore', you got mainly a selection of the latest reggae sounds sprinkled with oldies, but also some soul and other popular songs of the day, disco, funk. It was more of a mixture. A: Right. When you go to a house party, 'cause we used to keep a lotta house parties where you jus' keep a party to try and make some money. You cook your food, you have your drinks, and this is kept in somebody's house, usually in a basement. And on the ground floor as well. People come, you don't pay to go in, you just go in and you buy drinks, and you smoke herb. And you buy food. Well, but that kinda scene now, you will get some that is strictly just Jamaican music, but the younger ones comin' up would play James Brown especially. Ca' him funky, anyt'ing by James Brown good. And one or two other that were funky at the time, can't even think of them now. But, ah, 'If You're Ready (Come Go With Me)', you know that tune? Q: Sure. A: And the 'Liquidator' version, you know the 'Liquidator'? Q: Harry J All Stars. A: Yeah. Well, them did do a, like, I cyaan remember... a female R&B singer do version of that. Q: You mean the Staple Singers, Mavis Staples? A: Ah, yeah! Staple Singer. What was the name of it? Q: 'If You're Ready (Come Go With Me)'. A: Yes, same one. But there was another one I was thinkin' of as well, 'Liquidator'... I dunno if - you remember the tune (Carl's humming it, and obviously I didn't...)? Yes, so at that time, the younger ones comin' up, they would play some of the soul music. Well, I used to go to - y'know, you have the type of man who just go to the scene where you just have reggae music. But clubs like the Ram Jam, they used to play soul music as well, mixed in with the reggae. More reggae than soul, but it was a dressy club where you dress up to go an' show off an' dance and, y'know, spend your money and try to impress girls and so on. So that type of scene, you would even have a Sunday session where they have mostly soul music playing. And that was the soul music of the time, Otis Redding, Ben E. King, Sam & Dave, and some a dem other funk artists, the Temptations later on. So you have the popular American artists always get some play when they have a hit record at those type of scene. But then you have club like the Roaring Twenties that never play no soul music, beca' the people who go there they just want the deep roots reggae music. But then Q Club was another one that play mostly soul, totally soul or ninety-five per cent soul. I've been there a couple of times but it's not my scene, beca' everybody dressed nice, everybody pretty. You know wha' I mean? You cyaan smoke no herb really round the corner, you haffe jus'... So you have to be a bit more uptown fe go a dem place deh. So it's not my style. So even then you had a divergence of the music in terms of social entertainment, but you didn't have much live appearance of reggae artists until 'The Harder They Come', or after that. And Bob Marley being one of the firs' to come on a regular basis, then everybody start expecting people to perform with that kinda message. So you see, the message, it was the type of message we needed here because of the kinda prejudice that we live under here, as black people. So we like to hear about that similar kinda message, although it's not the same. Beca' when in Jamaica they're singin' about the oppressor, they're singin' about the Chineyman and the Syrian mostly who rule Jamaica. You know, and the white man in general. But specifically it was aimed at the Chineyman, especially (chuckles). You see, ca' the black man always been oppressed everywhere (laughs)! So anyway, that come out, and that message we identified with it. Beca' I think also in New York and other places where other black people live, in Toronto, Canada, they identify with that message, so it was encouraged. So the singers sing more of that as well, and you find more of the ghetto singers gettin' the opportunity to sing about their individual oppression.

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Article: Peter I (Please do not reproduce without permission)