Q: And then Black Echoes came on the scene in about 1975, to take up competition. A: Yes, it's like some competition. Not just for me, I never really see it as a competition. I was glad fe see more reggae music written about, just to read what them write (chuckles), to see if them doing anyt'ing good, y'know. But yeah, it was a competition for Black Music magazine on the whole, because it was a weekly comin' out an satisfying a different kinda audience, not so 'mature' maybe as myself. But a younger kinda audience comin' up, where they could interview people like Tapper Zukie on a weekly basis, or a one off record that was a hit at the time. So they would deal more with a singles market, I think better than we did. Because by the time we write about sup'm, and it come out three weeks later, y'know wha' I mean? So, I think that was great, an' it help make the reggae music scene more flavourable and more appealing to the other music audiences and readership. Yeah, that was great, Black Echoes. Q: You did go back and forth and did most of the reporting from the Kingston scene, but also featuring a lot of the British based acts. A: Yeah, I mean I went to Jamaica finally in 1977, before that I had been going back and forth, once a year or so. I seckle there in '77, I went there to live in January 1977. Before that, up to that point, I had just been going and comin' back, going an' coming back. So anything else before that, was from when I visited Jamaica. '75 was like the first time I went there, after being in Englan' for so long. '75 was the firs' time I went to Jamaica, and then I went back '76 a couple of times.

Carl Gayle aka Carl I (Photo: Helinä Rautavaara)

Q: But what led up to the decision by the editor, or the staff, that they decided to, after an existence from December '73, a little more than a year at that point, to 'invest' in you going back and doing a deeper kind of reporting on it? A: Well, they didn't 'invest'. I mean, every time I went to Jamaica was just because I pay for my own flight, yunno. I just go to visit my people in Jamaica, right. And while I was there I did some articles, and that benefit them. They had no idea that that would be a great t'ing to do, right, writing about reggae music from Jamaica. I jus' did it because I wanted to go to Jamaica, and while I was there I tek the opportunity to interview all these artists and write about it. And then it was great for the reggae music content in Black Music. Finally, when I told them I was gonna go to Jamaica and live now, they said they would pay me for a monthly column. And they did for a couple of months, but then it stopped. They said no, they could not afford to pay me anymore. So that was it. Q: Which was possibly just bullshit but anyway, that's how it goes. A: Yeah. By then I think they figured that they could have covered it without me anyway, since I was leaving. 'Cause a lot of artists were comin' to England from Jamaica, and they limited their reggae coverage anyway. I think it got less. Q: But there wasn't any animosity or bad communication between you and the editor before that, which could've caused it? A: No, no, no. We were on good terms, but then I think Alan Lewis left, my editor. I think if he had been there I would've still been gettin' work. Q: Someone called Ray Coleman was the main publisher, or had the main responsibility for the publication then, wasn't it? A: I think Ray Coleman took over, or even Geoff Brown took it over. They couldn't pay me. I think it was him who was the editor at the time. Q: Did you lose touch with the staff after you moved, or did you link up again after you returned to England in the late eighties? A: I come back to London and I heard that Tony Cummings, the guy who used to do the soul and R&B for Black Music, he was a Christian. So I didn't know how to get in touch, I never sought him out or anything. And I think I was told that he was living in America. I don't know Alan Lewis really except on an office level, but it is a good bloke. If I saw him I would be glad to see him. But someone like Vivien Goldman (author for books like the 'Black Chord' and 'Bob Marley: The Book of Exodus') now while in Jamaica once, like once or twice, 'cause she used to come there. And she used to contribute to Black Music before that. Q: I thought she wrote mostly for Sounds and Black Echoes or even NME? A: Yea, she did, but she got more involved in reggae music after... I mean, I first know her when she was workin' for Sounds, because it was the same people, the same publishers who put out Black Music. Q: IPC. A: Yeah, and it was the same building. And that's how I knew her. She was friendly with Tony Cummings. And yeah, after that she get more interested through Island association, writin' for these Sounds and these other magazines you get contacted by other record company people and you get more into reggae music, and that's it. I think she may have done something for Sounds on reggae music. Maybe, I'm not sure. She's living in America now. So I never really have no more link with them.

John Holt

Q: I can't recall exactly what was being written in the editorial, but there was trouble for the magazine at one point from something, a look at the British reggae industry you'd written with John Holt saying less flattering things about the mistreatment and the leading labels, that BM was being sued, or very close to, by Trojan or other actors at the time. I don't know how far that went. Trojan was almost bankrupt anyway... A: Oh, I remember something vagely about that. Q: Close to libel or something of that nature. A: I don't know again, do you remember anything of that? Q: You featured Mr Holt and he opened his mouth and let it flow freely, and Trojan was under pressure anyway, close to being bankrupt, so they spread some rumour to sue the magazine for the printing of your article on the issue and the other companies around then. A: And who was saying they're gonna sue? Q: They wrote that in the editorial, that it was close, to file a law suit against BM for libel... whatever. If it was even close? A: Yeah, I remember that vaguely. But you know what? Even then, even if they had sued, I don't even know anything about it. And the reason why they didn't, is because everything was true and I had it on tape. Yeah, I think my editor did say something, but it was kinda vague. It didn't look as if anything was gonna happen. But at the moment when something is written in the press, it looks bigger than it is. I don't think there was ever any real issue with that. Maybe I don't know as much about it that I could've, because as I say... oohhh... if there was something serious, Alan would've a serious talk with me about that. And I think maybe he did ask me if I had it on tape, and I told him yes. I think maybe that's all I thought or said about it, y'know. So, it never really mean much to me. Q: Do you recall that particular time when Trojan finally went bankrupt in '75, how much of a setback that was to the Jamaican scene at the time, or if it even was? A: I don't think so. Was it '75? Q: I think so, and then this older man, Marcel Rodd, the classical Saga company, I believe they specialised in reissues of classical records, bought Trojan in about '76. A: Yeah. Trojan, you see, we never... we expec' that to happen, because them never do the business good at all. They was just some... a lotta piratin' going on. So, I wasn't surprised. But I mean, I had friends there, and as much as I had friends there then I just communicate with them. But I never see it make any difference really. Because by that time, the music Trojan put out wasn't that well in the market. But it was a big outlet I guess for a lotta artists. Is just that it was an outlet for certain producers who have a lot of artists music. But them never try to do the business proper, or properly. So I don't know. Trojan did a lot, ca' they were the first to put out a lot of artists. I mean, Island was the first company, but Trojan really spread it out with a lotta names. So it would've been missed for a while. I can't really remember much about Trojan, that I miss 'bout it, y'know. Because there were so many other labels.

Q: The critic, the writer or journalist in those days was a lot more influential, what do you think is the role of the future critic? Is it still important or it has lost the impact that it once had? A: I don't think it's so important anymore. What might be still important though is gettin' good reviews for sendin' out with your pack, getting good reviews for the artist that they can put online. Because it's all video or dvd now, innit? So, a good interview on dvd would do a lot. But whereas people not even puttin' out magazines anymore, beca' they don't sell. There aren't that many magazines. So, everything is on the internet if you want to know about reggae music. There's a lot of information there. But as far as a regular magazine, weekly or monthly, about reggae music, I don't think that will have much effect now. It's on the radio, the net. You see, we needed it then in the seventies, because it wasn't still that much on the radio. Now it's on the radio, every area you're in in the black community, there's pirate stations. Everybody playing reggae music. Q: But speaking about books, isn't it about time that you... A: I would have to have the money fe do it, otherwise I might do it myself. But as I said before, somebody like Dotun (Adebayo, a Nigerian-born writer, author of 'Can I Have My Balls Back, Please?', TV host, publisher, web-TV owner, and talk show host on BBC Radio) now, maybe I shouldn't even use his name beca' he wouldn't even like it (chuckles). But the fact is he said he was going to put out a book, put it together. But I promise myself to get in touch with him and he'll be surprised. But every time I've spoken to him he is the one who always want to do something about that, ca' him see it as quite valuable. Again it's because it would be a collection of interviews that really show a lot of that time in the music and in Jamaica. And just as what you are doing now, with the artists that you cover, that haven't been covered. Q: But you hadn't thought of that before, to gather most of your work for Let It Rock, Black Music and Jah Ugliman, even the pieces in the 'Reggae International' book (now deleted), or some one-off pieces here and there as well, and to do some kind of retrospective volume of all this for a new generation? A: No, I get bored by writin', except writing songs. Once you get into writing songs it's a great art, and it's really fulfilling. To sit down and write like that now, I don't see myself as a journalist anymore in that sense. The only journalism I could do or would do is something happening in the community, more political stuff. Or when the time, if it do arrive conveniently. I just wouldn't throw myself into it. But I might do, but that is the only type of writin' I think I would be interested to do now. But writing about music now, I just don't have the interest having done it before, and not having the same enthusiasm for reggae music as I used to. Q: Everything will come in due season, or have it's time or role to play. A: I mean, entertainment spread out. I still love reggae music, and I still hear some good reggae music. Whereras in the nineties I never hear much, I'm hearin' more now. But still it's not the only music, and really there's more important things going on in the world to just entertain myself. That's my point of view of life now, as a Rasta. So I'm trying to do something about, in my lickle way, through music, influence the people to inform themselves and know better what's going on. Yeah. Q: Do you agree that Jamaican authorities haven't taken care of the legacy of Jamaican popular music and history very well over the years? A: Yeah, it's not in their portfolio. I don't know what them have there now, but they should have a music department, or a cultural department that deals with music. And there is something like that, because they do honour people like Bob Marley and people like Jimmy Cliff and so on. And the oldies, some a dem oldies deh. But I don't exactly know, I never check it out properly. But they do have some cultural things, I think they have a museum now, or library. I'm not sure. Q: I believe it was something set up in Ocho Rios for display, a smaller kind of museum, or workshop and stuff. A: But it would require people like yourself and other internationally to contribute to that, like maybe Roger Steffens would have a much better t'ing. And I dunno if it's about Bob Marley, really. But that is something that could become very valuable, if done right in Jamaica.

Reggae Exhibition Island Village Shoping Center, Ocho Rios JA

Q: Sometimes I wish that the authorities, the powers that be, could root out what's there in the JBC-TV vaults and release a compilation for the dvd market, which has never been done to my knowledge, diggin' out the best of what they can find. A: But you see, the money would've to be located to do that, and the government is so poor because them haffe be paying back IMF and World Bank loans (laughs). So them not going to locate much to that, that's secondary important for a government in Jamaica. It's only in the western world that you would get the opportunity to have that. If the Jamaican music belong to Britain, then there would be much more chance of it being shown on... I don't know what they have over here for popular music, if there's something like that for popular music. But maybe it's more needed in Jamaica. But yeah, people go to Jamaica for reggae music and they visit all the places that they've heard about. So in that sense a service for reggae music is there, they go for the concerts, for the festivals, and it's well attended. Q: What's the future for Jamaican music, to use that overused question once again? Will they get back some of the authentic feel for it, and the nice dirty, compact studio sound we loved back then, or they will continue in the same vein as now. Hard machines, hard rhythms, and harder lyrics? A: Yeah, they will never get back that authentic feel. Beca' you see, it's like a river, the ebb and flow, like it will flow smoothly and then it will have a part where it's not going down so fast, and it level off. But this is a time, I think, it might be pickin' up, it's going along all right. I think with people in R&B and hip-hop music, them have an interest in reggae music with certain artists who they think they can sell. But this is the link which we always have wanted from Jamaica with America. Bob Marley tried to link up with Stevie Wonder to promote his music, beca' him never really get across to black Americans, which is what he wanted to do. And what every artist would like to do... by means, ah, well, that is the question: how are they going to do it? At the moment VP, them link up with P Diddy, I think I heard that, to distribute Jamaican artists. I think Elephant Man is one of the first who is going to get... And they've had so many way, even Sizzla, they put out a CD with some big company. Maybe it never worked out so well. But I think more of that will happen. It won't go back to the roots days, it will become more like the dancehall. The dancehall flavour will always be there. It will appeal to people more, beca' it's more distinctive and more in tempo with the times currently. Reggae music really was a slower music. But now I think the tempo get step up a bit. And through the computer t'ing deh now, it step up a bit, 'ca the bass lines could play faster. And from there it it develop where the singers sing more lyrics in a bar, y'know, in one bar. Yes, so it change in that sense. They don't sing exactly like they used to, waiting on the riddim. You know like Gregory Isaacs? Him sing and then you hear the riddim and him sing and you hear the riddim - that was the old style, that was the old school. People are more urgent with their singin' now. So, that's what's happenin' through the deejay influence, the sing-jay business, with Sizzla and Capleton an' dem, them singin' an' dem talkin'. They have a lot to say. So you see, it's the urgent way of the feeling of the people. Crisis cause them to be singin', no have no time fe wait on the riddim, you jus' sing or chant. So it will continue like that until the society change. The music reflect what's going on in the living condition of the people. Q: So much is kind of fragmentary, cut up, superficial, and almost everything goes so fast now that people can't even relax and reflect upon what's happening, properly. Or so it might seem. A: No, people are in a hurry to do things, and I think that is reflected in the music. The tempo and what they're saying, how fast dem sayin' it. Q: Right. A: They jump on that bandwagon, beca' that's what's going on. The older musicians will always stick to what they know. But you see, that's why people go out of date and people don't wanna buy them no more. Beca' when Fats Domino usually was popular, it was that kinda music that was popular. But now, in order to be popular, they may have to sing more of the type of music that is going on now (chuckles). Q: And the world order has been so strange and unjust... If you check for 'the real thing', white media always seem to control what's 'better', and someone like Van Morrison is bigging up Bobby 'Blue' Bland as a greater talent and being more influential, but it's Van who ends up being 'the influence'. Not taking anything away from Morrison though... A: Yeah, this is what the big guys want. This is happening now too, in reggae music. And it will happen, because there's a lot more artists in Europe and America, white artists singin' reggae music, and they will make hits. And these are artists now that will get sales with certain people, because they sound like the real t'ing. Which is good in a sense, but maybe other Jamaican artists will have to take a lesson from that as well. Q: I prefer older music, something more soulful. So much has been done already, and much will never be surpassed or bettered in any case. What some would say there's an 'amateur boom' right now, all over, where the quality has deteriorated and lasting talents are fewer than ever, it has undeniably dropped. A: Yeah, that's true. Q: Now almost anyone can make 'music'. Almost having a demo tape as 'the real thing', what they used to work out for a later recording with a rhythm box in the old days is now taken for what is 'happening'. It has kinda turned upside down. A: Yeah, I think so. I mean, the opportunity to make music is easier. And because of that, in any type of music, more people are making it. So what they do, they go for the 'dance' type of music, most artists. So every artis' try to get the people to dance on an upbeat tempo. And that's what's affectin' the music. Musicians don't have to be playin' that much, they don't need so many musicians. And it's cheaper. So, as I said, your financial position always affect what you're doing. And if you waan to break away from those old type of producer, instead of having to wait on them, you do what you can in the meantime and put out something which people might like. So, you can't stop that. And that's always gonna happen. But the good musicians, older musicians usually, them need to learn from what's going on, tek the bes' of what's going on now as well and make use of it. Ca' music cyaan stand still, yunno. Yeah, you can make great music now just like they did then, but the talent have to be still there, you have to be choosy. And you have to have a good feel for what people want.

Carl Gayle aka Carl I

Carl had one of the sharpest pens back in the day, he wrote straight and honest from his mind; he educated, irritated, entertained, provoked and uplifted, and he covered the vibrant Jamaican culture the way it should be but has received little praise for it since those times. That's why we need a book of his collected works in times such as these. It's really the same with Carl I, the musician, the singer, the songwriter, the observer and the man of the culture. Carl isn't a man to take an easy road. Life is a challenge to begin with and he challenges every inch of it, regardless if he's 'paying a price' doing what he does, or what he have to do. 'Keep My Fire Burnin'' isn't easy on the ear, not easy listening and I suppose it was never meant to be, it's that challenge again; the artistic expression first and foremost, not commercialised thinking. The sweetness doesn't belong here, nothing polished, nothing which isn't thought-provoking or captures your attention from the start. You may not be comfortable with some of the tracks here, for whatever reason, but they may grow on you in the long run. You may hate some of them at a first listen, who knows, maybe you cringe and turn around when hearing the lyrics for what they contain, his neurotic, tortured singing, the bone-crushing bass lines which hits harder than most modern productions these days. But not all compositions here are musically satisfying, that will develop on later recordings, I'm sure, he's got 'more' inside. The majority of these recordings have something lasting and colourful about them and the effort in producing an informative and eye-opening booklet like the one you'll find here is almost enough for investing in this album alone. A record needs support, take a chance on it and I'm almost sure you will have made the right decision. It's about the naked soul, right, the naked soul... 7" single information courtesy Roots Knotty Roots. Carl I's Website : www.myspace.com/bongocarli

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Article: Peter I (Please do not reproduce without permission)