Q: At the same period as Nighthawk, the band had a few albums on the Jam Rock imprint - 'Babylon Street', 'Gladiators By Bus' and 'Reggae To the Bone' all came out through Jam Rock.

A: Oh, right! You know, that one is the same one that's over in France.

Q: 'Babylon Street' was released as 'Back To Roots' at the time in France.

A: Yeah, so that was Albert hustling! A so him do, him actually get a little money from Prince Tony, put in him pocket and release it as 'Babylon Street'.

Q: So Prince Tony had the Jam Rock label?

A: Yeah. It's Prince Tony's label.

Q: And 'By Bus' and 'Reggae To Bone'? Never seen these albums.

A: I can't remember exactly how that went. I think - I can't remember if it was 'Reggae To Bone' or 'Babylon Street', which one of them. (Laughs) I don't remember, I just know that it's one of those, whether it's a song on the album or... I don't know. But I know that the one 'Babylon Street' and 'Back To Roots', it's the same recording.

Q: And you were like the session band at Channel One on Maxfield Avenue for some time. You recall the 'Showdown' (Empire) LP with Don Carlos & Gold, one side each. By the way, how was the combination between you and Barnabas (drums), whatever happened to him?

A: A-woah, yeah! He was an engineer, he was also a deejay. After he left the Gladiators I think he was doing that, then I think he shift to the United States here, he was here for a while. At one time he was promoting, and then he went back to Jamaica. But we haven't talked too regular since he went back to Jamaica, so I dunno how he is really doing these days. We had been recording with different artists, and I guess they (the Hookims) did like the sound that we had. I can't remember how that... But that didn't go accordingly either. It was a good experience working with them from a musical point of view, and I always like Channel One sound, but the business part of it. Looking back at it, since I wasn't the one dealing with the business, who knows who were dealing upful from who wasn't? You know, I was just the back-up guy.

Q: Under what circumstances did you want leave the group, this occured after the tour with Yabby You in '85 or was it some years after, like the US tour the band did with the Ethiopian and Winston Jarrett? Did Gallimore leave the Gladiators first, and then you called it quits?

A: Um, I think that's how - can't remember if Gallimore went first or I went first, I think I actually went first. I think I left first. Basically, I wasn't happy, I gave the group a hundred percent, or more. I put all of my material on the backburner - I put my creativeness, y'know, which is my first love in the music, is write the music and sing the music, writing and singing. And that would be questioned and I wouldn't have any fun with that.

Q: Albert was dominant on all the albums as far as songwriting was concerned, was the Gladiators after all his group, that was the perception? He was like the spokesperson for the band in interviews and so on.

A: Well, in Gladiators he is the oldest member of the group, when Gladiators start I wasn't in it, but I'm coming in with the vibe that 'hey, let's do this together'. And the impression I had when we start, and that's what was our mark, and we figure say well, this is how it gonna go: We do things together, that's why the group name 'The Gladiators'. You notice later on that it change from the Gladiators, to 'Albert Griffiths & The Gladiators'?

Q: Yes, I know. But he changed it back again, now. I think so.

A: Yeah (chuckles)? Anyway, the attitude actually very much was the forerunner, for the namechange. The attitude was long way there. But the namechange come later on, but the attitude was out of touch, you know, for long before the name change. The thing is, I was getting frustrated not being able to do what I really loved to do. In addition to that, the vibes in the group (was) too... bad! You know, Gladiators was like 'not bother', and a bunch of new kids, that was how the policy was like. I finally decide to 'you know what?' But I have to be fake, I have to accept a lot of things, and say "You all went moneymaker", and Albert gone with most of it, y'know. He have his money and split a little bit. I have to admit that him always give me a little more than the other guys, I was kinda him right hand man. But, that wasn't good enough, the vibe that goes with all of that wasn't good, so I just tired of taking that, so I step down. I know it hard out deh but I'm gonna find something for myself. Then I think it was Nighthawk or some other people check me and say, man, they need me to get back in the group and seh blah blah. So he send other musicians, him don't come himself to check me and blah blah. So I say alright, I go back and hopefully decide for the better. But, wow - it was worse! So the last tour I did in the Gladiators was when we toured in the United States.

Q: That was alongside the Ethiopian.

A: It was with the Ethiopian, yeah. Clinton Rufus and myself...

Q: And Alric Forbes too (formerly of Yabby You's harmony group The Prophets)?

A: Alric at the time, Alric wasn't really on the tour, he was coming back to Jamaica. He was coming back from Jamaica and the guy was living in the US then, he send his ticket to ride up with us, and he would eventually go back to - where it was, I think it was California, he would go back there and halfway through the thing I think Albert would call him up on stage too, he would play. But when we settle everything an' t'ing like that, we decide seh we would come to Seattle, because we don't have no money and we have excess time and with our Visa. We check this guy Charlie Morgan (Outernational) and say "Hey, we have this time and we would play some music before we come back", and he say "Hey, come on up, man". So we brought Alric to come with us and that was me, Winston Cartey, Clinton Rufus and Alric Forbes.

Q: This is the late eighties?

A: Yeah, '87. This guy named Al Kaatz, y'know, he was a guitarist but played a little keyboards, so he stand in on keyboards. Then at the time Errol Nelson ('Tarzan', long time session organist in Kingston) he played keyboards with us on the tour, he also stopped off in Texas. Then later on he joined us up here, and so by then Al Kaatz quit playing, and Errol took over. And we played for about six months and went back to Jamaica, with the intention of coming back. Then the drummer died - Winston Carty. We came back, and we start all over again. And at one time Rufus went down to check his family and on his way back up, they cross his passport in Miami and send him back to Jamaica, saying that he's spending more time in the US than he is spending in Jamaica. I was still here so I decided well, bwoy - because it was my time next to go down. So I decide 'you know what, I'm gonna stay and get me green card' an' t'ing like that, so I don't have to face that situation. Well, bwoy it took me like about five or six years before I finally get my green card (chuckles)! By then I had established a life here, a living here.

Q: You formed a band there named The Defenders and released one twelve-inch, 'Chant Down Babylon'. Was that the only record at the time, you did more than that?

A: By the Defenders, yeah. That was the only one. We try to record several times but it didn't get anywhere because it was hard to make decisions and everybody's opinion was so strong.

Q: Was it long after the Defenders that your current Boogie Brown Band was formed?

A: No, it wasn't long after that, almost immediately after that I started regrouping people, musicians for the Boogie Brown Band, and it's been a struggle finding the right people too. When we first started off, me having a couple of horns, we have a lead guitarist, keyboards, myself and a drummer. I think it was about six of us, and the horns left pretty quick, ca' we were just growing then too, and their thing was bad! So they weren't having much fun, plus we weren't making as much money either. So, it's two things there, so things keep evolving and things like that. We managed to get a good crew. Right now, I have a good band right now, I have a good drummer, I have a couple of horn players - good, I have a good bass player now.

Q: So you've hung up the bass for now?

A: Yeah. I have this guy now playing bass named Jeffrey DeMelle. He has been playing with us for roughly, close to a year.

Q: Their background before entering the Boogie Brown family?

A: Um, Jeffrey DeMelle has been playing with a popular group down this area name Jumbalas, and they used to play a combination of like soca, reggae, calypso. And the two horn players, they are young youths pretty much for the most part just coming out of music school, and their background is mainly jazz but they love what we do, and that make a big difference. And Barbara (keyboards) has been playing classic for a while, played with African groups. But the longest she's played in a band is with the Boogie Brown Band. From the start, Boogie Brown has been going for some ten years now.

Q: And you've released four albums so far?

A: Yeah, the last one is a compilation ('Soon Come').

Q: Anything coming up?

A: Um, that's what 'Soon Come' is about (laughs)! There's a new recording 'soon come' (chuckles)! But we haven't started that yet.

Q: You are still in the writing process for it.

A: Oh, I have the material and all of that but haven't some costs that got to me where members that I had was to let go. The previous recording that they do, they thought that I paid them for the recording and I had not been able to do that, minimum. So I couldn't afford to go in the studio (laughs)! The story continues.

Q: But so far these albums have been recorded and produced in the States, soundwise that is obviously a big difference to Jamaica. Ever thought of bringing the band down to Jamaica to get that authentic Jamaican mix?

A: Yeah, I've thought of that and I've thought of the... you noticed 'What A System' is mixed by Scientist?

Q: Yes, that's nice dubwise, but it's still the American, softer approach about it. Not necessarily 'bad' as such, still I feel it is lacking something, what I'd call the dirt. The difference between analog recording on the quarter-inch tapes and the DAT's now is enormous, it's just way too clean in my opinion, especially on the drums.

Q: And the two-inch... yeah, you are perfectly right, you're perfectly right. I think - and that's kinda my thing again, is not even so much mixing in Jamaica, it's recording on the right equipment by the right sound engineer more so than where you do it. So yeah, earlier on I probably would, I'm not sure right now if I would wanna go to Jamaica because of authenticy. Beca' those equipment, nobody no have them anymore, everybody have them drum machine an' a keyboard, computerized and stuff, that's what they're going by, y'know. And then they pump it up 'til it start and create a sound that way deh, and it's cool, it's cool to have. Only t'ing with it's like about the drum machine and the synthesizer stuff an' t'ing like that is like it's steady, that's the only good given thing there, the riddim is steady beca' it's an automatic t'ing, a machine. So it don't sway like a drummer would. But other than that, I don't love it. And the other t'ing, when I first make those albums too, then I - it's me just stepping into the scene in terms of producing, an' don't have, say, an engineer who understand how the music run, y'know, how it will be mixed, and t'ing like that. So now that I know more about it, I wouldn't have the problem mixing it the same place there.

Q: Well, I gotta confess one thing, and I'm sure I'm not alone, you have this hope of seeing some of the vets out there returning to either Aquarius, Dynamic or Harry J, which is still in operation, and reuse whatever is available to get the studio working again the way it used to be, and hopefully get some of that authentic sound back. But it is just dreaming, they haven't maintained the sound very well, and I guess most of the equipment is worn down, probably replaced by a lot 'cleaner' machines.

A: The ones still in operation? Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about! Man, one guy or two, I heard that Gussie Clarke's studio is probably one of the better studios out there now to record at. But I'm quite sure that them also pump up with new equipment that the old ones probably gathers dust and that them don't operate that t'ing anymore. You would probably go to a hard deal gettin' a old fashioned recording, they'd have to pull some things up, reset some things, an' t'ing like that. Plus you would have to get a sound engineer from back then too, somebody like Soljie, or Scientist, or Ernest (Hookim) from Channel One whe actually know those sounds an' would actually go back there. Because a lotta dem would actually have to know that sound to keep up with the sound that's happening, a lotta dem lose what they had too.

Q: What became of some of the engineers the Gladiators used back in the day?

A: Um, I really don't know. These days when I go to Jamaica I jus' mainly go up in the hills to check my family and hardly move around the music scene down there. I don't hear anything'bout it. I heard two years ago - or was it last year I was in Brazil - and I meet this guy who work with Joe Gibbs, and so I learned that Joe Gibbs is living over in Brazil for a long while now. He is still in business over there, but having somebody else fronting things