Q: Speaking about consciousness, 'What A System' maintains in a dignified way the tradition of social awareness, you can't leave that out.

A: Yeah, the system how it affect the economy, how it affect poor people, what was going on in South Africa. In those time what were going on with the Vietnam war, how deadly politics were in Jamaica very much affected our generation, yes. We tend to have a slightly different outlook on the whole thing. The thing is when looking way back in the seventies, when you look on the political front and nothing much (has) changed really. A new generation, but...

Q: The same system?

A: Same system, you know. Another thing too - and this is about me - is that I have a story to tell, from ever since from coming up back then, and not much people have a story. And so I tell the story in a big way, loving way, in a not-so-harsh way, in a not-so-direct way. I am hoping that some day, sometime, somehow, people will really hear my story, hopefully learn from my story, including the politician. Because the basic thing is that war never solve a problem, the most you can do is to work as a Band Aid. But it never really solve a problem, all it causes is resentment, which end up to more war and regret, and resentment and hate. The more war again it just take different turns but it never really solve the problem. If you could get one another and the leaders to realize - or at least get to the point where we know 'OK, this is how the leaders operate and not expect anything more'. But at least put it all in front so we know what we're working with, ca' a lot of us still don't know what we're working with. We've been pushed around and we've been pulled around so much and so enveloped by the system that we don't know what's going on. We forget that we have another self, rather than just when we look 'pon we hand and we see its skin and say when lookin' ourselves in the mirror and say 'oh, this is skin'... There's a spiritual self that we don't tap into anymore, don't even learn that we have a spiritual self. Because we're so busy, we have to cope with every day running around, trying to please somebody or having someone please us (laughs), y'know what I'm talking about.

Q: Most of the older generation keeps on doing the music with a conscious bite to it up to this day - it just never left, thankfully, regardless how the market may look.

A: It's true, man. And you know, right in the seventies and the sixties were some great years in terms of positivity, there was a positive turnaround. Music from all over actually were touching (a) positive note, y'know, people make marches an' t'ing like that, and there were a strive for betterment and strive for 'Hey man, enough is enough'. 'We have to take back ourselves, we've got to stand up and make this thing, we got to be a person - be ourselves', y'know. Can't just let ourselves go out there and just die like that for nothing at all. These days it's about the big gun an' t'ings like that. We went from smokin' a lickle herb to smoking crack and heroin and all kinda t'ings, it's like we're hardly being ourselves anymore, it's sad, it's really sad. When me go a Jamaica, me really see it, y'know, it's small and it's not a whole lot that can be hidden. Jamaica is small and everybody almost knows everybody's business. If you wanna know what's going on with Tom, you find time to know. When you live in big cities you hardly have time to see what's happening, you simply try fe stay alive - every day. OK, you have the time to look 'pon the situation in the hills and you look 'pon the situation in the city and you see how even the politicians, they don't even deal with it - them lie and cheat you, and they don't even do it intelligently. Them do it so half-assed that it's so easy to see what them doing, is like insulting the masses intelligence. So, those kinda things hurt me. And like I say earlier on there are some talented youth in Jamaica, they don't have any programme to further those youths, so therefore they get frustrated an' get involved with badness and blah blah, and them come on. Now, back them up, to give the youthman to play an instrument, or write some positive t'ings. Now they have a computer and a keyboard and you're not even involved! There's no blood there!

Q: The hope is that youngsters will find their way back to instrumental skill instead of relying on programming, sampling and all the computerized tools to create, you feel this could take a turn?

A: I think so. And I think that it's a cycle and it will come right back round to that. It won't be the same, it will be different, yes. It will be totally different kinda riddim, totally different style, but it will be instruments again. This is gonna go out so far and even they themselves can't take it anymore, that's my thought.

Q: I suppose you didn't participate in the reissue of Virgin's Gladiators albums for the CD market, this came out a while back now, how did you feel about that?

A: In the reissue of those stuff? No, no. I tried to take it to lawyers to deal with the situation, and the people I check they make up all kinda different excuse, even if you finally say 'OK, we recompense you', by the time they get around to do it, it don't even worth it! It's like it discourage too, so in order to not frustrate myself and get pissed off all over again and again and again, I decided that 'you know what, I'm not even gonna look at that when I'm happy here'. I'm not gonna go that route, I'm just gonna focus on what I'm doing as if I didn't do those things. If I don't do that, I won't be able to keep my sanity, y'know what I mean? I didn't get any money from those guys, and the thing is to just move on. If I see where it's obvious I can get that money, I will. But I'm not gonna beat my head to it - again.

Q: But it is still good that these albums are available again, being kept away from the public for so long. Have you heard the CD versions of them (all except 'Naturality' and 'The Gladiators' are now reissued on CD)?

A: Um, yeah. I heard some of them.

Q: Seems like Prince Tony sold off the rights to these albums at the time then?

A: So them can do whatever they wanna do with them! And there were certain clauses in there, where he as the producer - certain involvement in the contract where the money were supposed to come to him, that also got signed out too. So that's why he was pissed off too, them have him actually also agreeing to something that wouldn't fully be in his benefit either! And trying to deal with it - mouth to mouth, hand to hand, fist to fist - instead of paper, but it didn't work out.

Q: A whole new generation picks up this music again, with the reissue of the Frontline records. It's a shame you don't get your share of this, but such timeless music should always be out there, and now thankfully, it is.

A: I know what you mean, and bottomline is, when all is said and done, I don't regret none of it. You know, is all a lesson for life. There's some good works there, at the time there were really some moments there where they served me well, they prevent me from going the other way, I could turn out to be a bad guy too and end my life or do vicious things. But because we were doing this I thought that I'm doing something this positive, I had no reason to go with deadly things. And I also watch the music people too and they make me feel good. So, I got 'paid' in that sense. Every so often I have people calling me, telling me I'm their inspiration and they're doing this and that, and having the reputation as an inspirer, that makes me feel really good. That make me feel like 'OK, my life hasn't been in vain'. So from those honours I'm feeling good, I don't regret it. If you look on the other side of it, it's too hurtful to know that these guys just collect offa your sweat, and you don't get anything.

Q: The bitterness of life I guess?

A: Ca' you have to be able to move on, it's the same way. I'm still get moved by stuff now, from when I was in the Gladiators, Albert wanted me only for play bass and harmonise his stuff. And like when I was writing songs, he used to make some deadly remarks, telling me about this and talk about 'oh, where does he think he is going with that, that's no good'. Like he would laugh at me when I'm working on something. At one point, I reach the point where I would not sing none of my songs around Albert, y'know, very discouraging. So all of that led up to I have to pass that and look at the good, the good that I got from the Gladiators, or the good that I got from Albert, look on the good side, in order to like I say I have to move on.

Q: What's the relationship like between you and Albert nowadays?

A: The last time was I think in California, it was a festival in Sierra Nevada.

Q: Yes, you did something together at their World Music Festival?

A: Together, yeah, that was the last time. But at first when I met him and when went over to give 'im a hug an' t'ing like that, 'man, long time yunno', he was very stand-off so I didn't really hug him then, I didn't get to. But halfway before the whole t'ing is over, it was alright. My impression is that he is still sour, is still sour because I left, and I understand really some of his - where he's coming from, it's more than one tie to a shirt, y'know.

Q: But he did get Gallimore back in the band again.

A: Yeah, he got Gallimore back in the group, and Clinton Rufus back in the group too. But bwoy, I heard that the group is not happening any more.

Q: Recently?

A: Yeah, recently. They're not happening anymore. They did something over in...

Q: France, wasn't it?

A: Well, OK... They were supposed to do something over in Brazil and they didn't show up, and I understand that Albert's manager got advance and didn't show up so there was a big problem there. Then the group were supposed to go to Peru, last minute Albert backed out and say he's not going, and he sent the group - they sent the advance, Albert kept the advance and the guys went over there to play. The people didn't want to work (with) them and decide not to really pay them because he wasn't there. So that was a big mess again. The guys did kinda hangin' on, because over the years the Gladiators now when some money can be made from the Gladiators, you know they are trying to get back in there too, to collect some of it. You know, I told them, bwoy, it's scary and I'm not doing it again. This time if I lose my life I would have no-one to blame, so I decided not to go. But even when I thought about it I could see that everybody was miserable. So I heard that Clinton Rufus and Bagga Walker put something together and they have a band right now, I don't know how successful it is, I don't know what they're doing. But I heard that the band (Gladiators) is not really happening right now. Albert him open up a club in the country, that's where he ends up. He's not very active in the biz as far as I believe, I think I heard that he got sick, or something like that, Albert. There's that news but I really don't know the fullness of all this, y'know. The last time I spoke with Gallimore Sutherland he said that Albert was like sickly.