Q: But Vincent Chin is someone you never really read about when it comes to discussing the sound-wars and dances and the competition between label-owners/producers in the late fifties, early sixties, he is kind of elusive there from a historical perspective. Why is that? Please put him in perspective there.

A: Yeah. Let me explain that to you, Peter; the reason for that is the fact that my dad didn't have a sound system, he was involved in the juke-box business. That's what he learned and that's what he knew. The sound system was on a whole... it's all a different ball-game. He could've gotten involved with the sound system, if he would have wanted to. But I don't think my father really sort of saw that the way he wanted to, and saw that the way he could've enjoyed. Because even me as a lad, I had a sound system too, yunno.

Q: You did?

A: Yeah. I had a sound system in 1971.

Q: Called?

A: 'Black Moses'! I played with Rockers with (Augustus) Pablo one night at JCC headquarters (which is Jamaica Chamber of Commerce, a venue which often arranged dances in those days). Ca' when I had to see all the violence that it brings and the corruption it runs, I didn't want to be a part of it. Because, honestly, it's something I think that... you have to be very into it. You have to be a part of the... I wouldn't use the word 'corruption', but you have to be a part of the whole disciplinarian, you'd have to be part of the whole scene, and it really bothered me after I had that first dance at JCC headquarters. And see a man... one man rode a motorcycle right through my gate and knocked down tables, and there's people who were just enjoying themselves. I was really upset, and I said 'You know somet'ing? I don't want to have any more dance'. I don't wanna be involved in this kind of thing, ca' it's... it can get a bit sticky.

Q: Creates a lot of enemies.

A: And it can create a lot of enemies. Yeah. But it's not that we didn't have the tools to do it, Peter. You must remember, yunno, we had a studio in 1969, we had a mastering area that could master not only a Randy's recording session, but we could dub plate all these guys that used the studio. We'd get riddim tracks on 'specials', like what King Tubbys called. And we could be huge! But these things calls for in charge (?) of environment, you have to have moneyman, you have to have bodyguard, y'know, it's (chuckles)... it's a whole different ballgame. If Jack Ruby was alive he'd tell you what he encountered, it's a different ballgame altogether.

Q: One long long headache.

A: Long... thank you! That's what it is. You know who I would trying to see if he is still around? You ever try to get in touch with Emperor Faith?

Q: The old sound-owner? Nope.

A: Yeah. Now, he was a guy that used to go around studios and used to get dub plates run off blah blah blah. And one day I asked him, I said, "Faith, how you really do it?" And him said to me, he said, "You know, this is one business I would never encourage my worst enemy to get involved in". So I said, "Why do you do it?" He said, "It's because I'm so involved in it that it's so hard for me to back out off the sound, but I wanna sell it". He told me that, ca' it's a dangerous business. Guys can come and throw cocktail bombs inna yu place and blow you up an'... y'know, if they don't like you, you know wha' I mean?

Q: Right, they can take you out of the competition in any time at all. It's risky, so that's something your father realised from early on.

A: Exactly. He saw that from early on but he did not wanna tell me. So when I did that time in '71, he said to me, "Clive..."

Q: 'Be careful', like?

A: "Be careful".

Q: 'Black Moses', sounds very Isaac Hayes to me (chuckles). A big album from that period, too.

A: Yeah. I had two turntables, I had a custom-made board with double turntables, them EQ strobe-lights, you waan see the set-up, man! Wicked nuh Raaastafari, man! 'Black Moses' (chuckles).

Q: How long did it last?

A: I guess for less than a year, must've been. 'Cause I remember it being at Deanary Road, right, and Deanary Road, we're back there in about '73, about '73/74 I left Deanary Road, mid seventies, and then we moved to St. Andrew, y'know.

Q: What was the crew, who did you operate it with?

A: Ahhh, that's a nice one now. I had Danny - a local friend, I had Carl...

Q: These had not been involved in the music before?

A: No, all a dem used to work at the store, yunno, all a dem used to work at the store. Danny, Carl and Mikey... I can't remember who we did have on mic again.

Q: The deejay upfront would've been pretty crucial.

A: Yeah man. You know who I used to have? General Echo.

Q: Long before the 'Ranking Slackness' and all...

A: Hold on deh! Wait, wait, wait, Peter! Crutches!! Crutches, man! Delroy Jones, ha haay!

Q: And that's the guy who appears on the 'Java Java Dub' album.

A: Yeah man - 'who lick the musical rod an' bring forth scorcha?' (hums) "tu du di di dom - ch!" Yes I-ya. You know who used to...

Q: Those were the days as they say.

A: Ohhh God, man. I don't even want to go there now, you're pluckin' me brain now, you're making t'ings happening now, sort of coming back to me... You know, it's good when you talk sometime and when you talk you remember. I get back into that kind of bag now, I remember that evening so well.

Q: When he drove the...

A: Aaahhh! The motorcycle deh.

Q: You ever found out who he was, like sent from somebody to sabotage?

A: No. No, no, no! Was a bit ignorant in that though.

Q: Just a rude little man, huh?

A: Yeah, just trying to mash up things, yunno. But I can't sort of like really say whether if that was perpetrated that way. I can't really say because, you see, the thing is that...

Q: You didn't feel it was a 'message' from somebody? 'Time to give the Chin a mark', like.

A: I just thought it was this ignorant person, I thought it was some guy that just probably was too high, y'know. But I never really keep another dance after that. I think JCC headquarters was this one, and I did another one - is two dance I did. But JCC I can remember. Because I had taken consignment rings from Treasure Isle, from out of Bond Street, y'know, out at Duke Reid deh, whatever sold - if it didn't sell you just carry it back, and you pay him for whatever, yunno. Which was good, so you didn't really lose. Yeah, so I would just pay for the hall, that's all.

Q: So the last dance of Black Moses was sometime in '72, never to be seen again.

A: It must have been around that time, yunno. Either '72 or '73.

Q: What sort of selection was on the turntable at those dances? A mixture of soul, funk and your own productions, mainly?

A: You mean in the dance? Heh, bwoy, you're pluckin' my brain now. I think I played a mixture, beca' I don't think we play just reggae, yunno. Ca' during them days deh you cyaan really jus' play roots music, yunno, you jus' haffe play a flex, you have to be very flexible.

Q: And that goes for most sounds at that time, a range of music and styles.

A: But you know what happen, Peter? I played tunes that they never heard, I played certain special tunes that they never hear. Because I had the opportunity to cut dub plates, the soft wax. And that's just what I believe honestly now thinkin' about it, that is why the guy ride a bike right into the space! Because I play t'ings that Rockers didn't have, and that got them upset. Because we played after, we made Rockers play first, and played all those... whatever they played, and then we tried to kill them (chuckles). Oh my God, I shouldn't start, it's not worth it...

Q: So there was an opponent in the dance.

A: Yeah, we played against Pablo, Pablo's sound system.

Q: And his brother Garth operating the Rockers set?

A: It wasn't Garth, man. It was this guy Paul, Paul White...

Q: Paul Whiteman of 'Say So' fame?

A: Yeah. I remember him being there. It was a rival thing, y'know, they were like chastin' a lot of shit, that we were chastin' blah blah blah blah. But honestly - as a promoter, as a producer - I wasn't into that, I was just making sure that everybody enjoyed themselves. So whatever these guys was talking about, I had no clue. I can't even remember, I didn't even take up the mic.

Q: So you never shifted the mic with Crutches, from time to time?

A: No, I would select the tunes. I would make sure that they would play this one or that one, yunno. Any songs of interest.

Q: Back to your father's work again. What was next in that time, with Creator, after 'Independent Jamaica'?

A: 'Don't Stay Out Late', 'Man To Man', 'King & Queen', 'Passing Through', 'We'll Be Lovers' with Norma Frazer, a duet.

Q: Right, the ballad.

A: A ballad, yeah. But 'King & Queen' is so wicked. You know, 'King & Queen' is actually 'Kingston Town'. I listen to that track, man, I love the melody in that tune. Oh! And 'Evening News'. My father said that the first 'Evening News' that was recorded in Jamaica was for him, not for Coxson. Yeah. The original one is recorded in Trinidad, as a calypso. But the original 'Evening News', the ska, was recorded for my father. A lot of people don't know that, they think it's Coxson.

Q: OK. So, the Randy's studio, this was built back in '68, at least according to Max Romeo it was set up in 1968.

A: You talked to Max Romeo? Uhu, I waan see him so bad though, is a shame. I love Max but there is the... but anyway - no, it's '69. It started in '68 but it opened up in '69. You know, he (Max) took a track, one tune I recorded with him, 'Every Man Ought To Know', and he gave it to Blood & Fire and said that was his recording. That was not his, it's mine.

Q: That was the single you had on Giant.

A: Yeah. Whe yu t'ink Giant is?

Q: That's a Randy's label, a subsidiary.

A: Good. And he told Steve Barrow and Bob Harding that it's his tune, and I tried to find him fe years about it, and you know what I said to them? "Because Max feels that is his tune, let him have it". But it's not his, it's mine. Mine personally tune, I auditioned that song. It's not his, my tune.

Q: Were you there even then in the studio, as early as '69 taking care of production? Before that, by the way, you were still in school in those days. It was KC you went to, with Pablo and Tyrone Downie, right?

A: I was at Kingston College. I was there for four and a half years.

Q: But your father wanted you to be part of the business even at that stage, while you still went to high school. Did you feel any pressure from him to join the studio runnings, like, 'having the first born son at the forefront' of what was happening at Randy's?

A: No. There wasn't really pressure, Peter, there was no pressure. The thing is that, I wasn't showing any interest in school, period. I mean, for a child that went to school for x amount of years... I mean, if I was to be showing any interest in going to school to become a doctor, become a scientist, become an artist, become a plumber, become an electrician - I wanted to do music, that was my love. And when I tested the waters, in 1971, and I saw that this is what I wanted to do, there was no turning back. And so was Horace Swaby aka Augustus Pablo, Tyrone Downie (chuckles) aka Organ D. You know what I mean? I mean, hey! What you gonna do? Turn these guys away?! No. When we had talent? You know? And worse when I link up with a man like Errol Thompson, which was my former schoolmate from choir school, you can't turn away people like that. You gotta be involved. So there was a chemistry in the music.

Q: You and Errol were pretty close in school?

A: Very close, Errol was my brother. Not in blood, but in spirit.

Q: He had an early interest in electronics, huh?

A: Yep.

Q: He was an apprentice somewhere, I've forgotten where at the moment, was it Federal?

A: No, he was an apprentice at Studio One.

Q: Right, yes. When did Errol join Randy's?

A: He joined Randy's in 1971. After two years, my father was looking for a permanent engineer, beca' Bill Garnett, who set up the studio in 1969, had left to migrate to the United States to work at a studio called Rosebud in Manhattan.

Q: And where did Bill Garnett come from, prior to joining Randy's?

A: Bill Garnett came from West Indies (WIRL). Bill Garnett was the one that was instrumentally involved in bringing Johnny Nash, Arthur Jenkins and Danny Sims to Randy's in 1969. They had a group (label) called JAD (chuckles).

Q: But WIRL was initially the creation of Edward Seaga, before being bought and renamed Dynamic Sounds by Byron Lee.

A: WIRL was actually run by... Dynamic was bought by Byron Lee, but WIRL is actually Eddie Seaga, you're right. Peter, you have your papers them correct, man.

Q: (Laughter)

A: You're not off balance, you're correct.

Q: OK. So Mr Seaga sold WIRL and got into the politics?

A: It was politics, man. Nuff politics was involved in that. Seaga...