Q: Yes. So that was a big set-back for the career, the Ethiopians came to a halt there, no doubt.

A: Yes man, very much. And it took me twelve years, you know that? It took me a couple of years well to get back, going back to the studio, and...

Q: But then, at the time, you felt you just couldn't replace him, or what was your feeling about it?

A: I tried to make another band, yunno. Because I had a Nyahbinghi band, where this album 'Slave Call'...

Q: For Niney in '78, yes.

A: You can see the brethren dem on it? OK, that was a band I was trying to arrange. But everyone got reluctant so I decided that I'm gonna stay solo. So it took me a long while before I do this album for myself and release it to Heartbeat, 'On The Road Again'.

Q: Right.

A: Yeah, to Heartbeat. Here I am again from that.

Q: By the way, what happened to Sir JJ? He was murdered?

A: He got killed, yeah.

Q: So what happened, to be more specific?

A: Well, they shot him three times and he didn't die, and the fourth time they cut his throat. So, y'know, we all see it was somet'ing that was planned.

Q: Truly a brutal act, yeah. He had his enemies coming at him.

A: Well, I want you to know, yunno... you see, in those time you don't have to have enemy, because even that man did not die. Yeah man, if Sir JJ didn't die, man, he would have a lot to do with Jamaican music.

Q: He had that ear for music, and schrewed, very business-minded and good at it.

A: Yeah man. But I just feel that within, these guys them try to get him out, yunno.

Q: You felt it was connected to anyone in the music business?

A: Well, it is not really for me to say. But you can know by what you see, after you noticed that it was somet'ing that was planned, like. You know? And you can't tell, because I know these guys will get you out, y'know.

Q: Well, it's more a mafia business than anything.

A: Yes, definitely.

Q: And under such circumstances you will have to watch your back, right (chuckles)?

A: You can't say too much, you know it (laughs)! You can't say too much, you have to watch what you say.

Q: Has the situation changed for the better in that regard?

A: Well, I can never think of things happen for the worse, yunno. Even when the best don't come, you still think for the best. It can never be for the worst. Yeah man, you don't think of the worst.

Q: How did the 'Slave Call' album come about? This came out on Count Shelly's imprint at the time, and produced by Niney.

A: That's another criminal, because that 'Slave Call' album, I don't collect a penny from it. Only my copyrights, which I own. But my mechanical rights, I don't collect no money from Niney. And that album, hear how I did it: Niney produced financial backing for the musicians and the studios, right, and I present the material, with no money. Because it was a deal, he's going to England to do a deal, come back and let me have money, beca' it's a business arrange, right, and that's it. From he left for England, that's it. Right now I'm trying to curtail (?) a lot of them now, because I find Keeling Beckford, I find a lot of them. In a while I'm going to have all of my material dem under my sleeve.

Q: And release them independently.

A: Yeah man.

Q: Good. That 'Slave Call' LP was out on the Third World label, have you approached Count Shelly about it too? Even though he's not the producer, but I suppose he had more than one finger in the whole thing?

A: Yes, I approach Shelly but he said is Niney he pay, I can't get nutten from Shelly. Is Niney and him is in business, yunno. And is years I don't see Niney, I don't know how to find him. But I only wish to meet him one day.

Q: (Laughter) Crooks, as they say. At least that's what it sounds like, even though there's the other side of the coin.

A: (Laughs) Yeah man, there are a lot of crooks. But, y'know, you have to give thanks to Jah, because maybe if it wasn't I them wouldn't survive, or many like I. Because I have the ability to do things that you can live off, give thanks to Jah.

Q: And you're still here at least.

A: Yeah man (chuckles)! The greatest thing to know is that I'm here, and still going, y'know.

Q: Absolutely.

A: True, true.

Q: So the whole concept of 'Slave Call' was to do something beyond the rockers sound, using Nyahbinghi beats as the foundation.

A: Yeah, we're using the Nyahbinghi beat.

Q: And not being only focused on what is the latest fashion - the rockers, bringing in the traditional sounds, upfront.

A: Yes! More than you have a chart, and... you know?

Q: Yeah.

A: True, true.

Q: Still it's pretty brave to do a concept album like that, it's a jeopardy; you never know how it's gonna sell, compared to something that is shaped by and following the market.

A: No, you see, the t'ing about it, yunno, as Drumbago used to say to me - Drumbago used to say 'Creativity is what pays', and I never forget that (chuckles)! Regardless of what I'm doing in music, try to be creative as Drumbago.

Q: There you have something lasting.

A: Yeah man.

Q: And that is for more generations than one, to hear. It doesn't vanish off the streets the same year it was out there.

A: Well, if it wasn't for that, y'know, I would be going through four generations right now.

Q: That's a good way to put it (chuckles).

A: Yeah man (laughs)! I'm going through four generations now, yunno.

Q: And it still sells.

A: OK. Last night, the night before last night, and when I see the young people singin' these songs that is forty/thirty odd year old, can you imagine how I feel?

Q: Proud, to say the least.

A: Man, listen to me, man - they give me a lift! Yeah. Some little kids. Young, twenty, late teens.

Q: And wasn't born when these songs was played out first.

A: Yes, they wasn't even born then (laughs)! Maybe mummy and daddy didn't even meet. You know? And to see them singin' these songs today! Man, it give me a warmth, y'know. But that is why I did them, for them to live (chuckles). Yeah, and that is why I always try to be creative. Because whenever time the creativity sit, it lasts. It's not like these music today, they are only using the old riddim tracks. They can only go this far, and die. Because the original has already been there, living the life. So he can't come and live a life again and again if the life is already there, y'know.

Q: How important is the message for you? It's not exactly like you choose some sort of middle-path, a social topic is never far from your pen, life is just so much more than romance and vanity.

A: No, you are doing what you feel, yunno, it's what you feel you're doing. You know, reggae music is a cry of a people. Is a cry of a people who is not having life to the fullest of their satisfaction, y'know. So the crying for help in various kinda ways is in the music, and that's the best way to do it. To communicate, that's what it's all about, communicate with the mind. We're not forcing it upon no-one; we deliver, you listen, you wanna accept, you accept. You wanna go through and meditate upon it and understand what we're doing, y'know what I mean? So we're not forcing anyt'ing upon no-one.

Q: After the 'Slave Call' album you had like a break for a couple of years and came back with the 1982 'Everything Crash' album for Coxson.

A: That was before 'On The Road Again'? Coxson album?

Q: Yes.

A: Yeah, that was the time when I leave the scene for a while, when I was in the country. Well... yes, I think you're right. That was the time, that every time I got a money I would go into the studio and I do one or two songs, and I put it out. With an intention any time - I went on a tour '80 (it was in '87 to be correct), with Gladiators, and I realise that the companies them in America, they don't want no single, they need an album. So, I went home and all I did is, when I do get my royalties, I did two songs, or three songs, or one song. And I have them back there, until Heartbeat helped me to finish that album, which is called 'On The Road Again'.

Q: But this one was out before that though, this LP consists of tracks like 'When Will Be The End', 'Hard Times', 'Empty Belly', 'Locus', 'Open The Gate', and all those tunes. That 'Everything Crash' LP was out in '82 that we're talking about now.

A: That was on Coxsone, 'Everything Crash'. Yeah. I'm talkin' 'On The Road Again', the title song is 'On The Road Again'. And I have a lot more. But those was a lotta new songs.

Q: And most of those was recorded during the nineties.

A: Yes.