Q: You've met a lot of those complications over the years, haven't you? A: Yeah, I did some tracks for Fatis on Xterminator, I did an album called 'Never Give Up'. Q: OK, yes, we're coming to that one. But there was a one-off you did for Jeff Sarge back in '77, called 'When Oh When' for his Shaka label, you recall this song? A: Yeah, I did a couple of tunes, 'When Oh When', and I did... Q: How did that come about? Sarge was based in New York then? A: Yeah, we grew up in Jamaica on the same street. He used to live on the same street with me in Harbour View, and he came down. Before I went to America, he and a brethren called 'Bubbles', Johnny Goldburne, they brought me to America in '79 for my first tour, and when I was back in Jamaica in the eighties (seventies), Jeff Sarge came down and said he wanted to do some producing with me. So we did a remake of the'Old Man Say' - I don't know if you've heard that one? Q: Unfortunately. A: 'When Oh When', that was at the same session. So 'Old Man Says' and 'When Oh When', Sly & Robbie played on those two songs, and Tommy McCook and certain man blow the horns on those two songs. It was a nice session, and Computer Paul, he was at that time a youth and I introduced him. I was the first person who got him to record. He was playing guitar, played guitar on that session. He was timid, 'cause as a youth I saw them was saying to me, "You sure this youth ready?" Me say, "Yeah man, him good, man. Him can play, yunno". 'Cause actually we used to sing with a band that he had formed in our area. We used to do some lickle gigs in some nightclubs during my early days, like in The Lyric days. We used to do some nightclub thing and I was in there when he formed that band. I knew he was a guitarist and could play, y'know. Yes, so that session, 'When Oh When', I think it was 1980 something.

Q: The label has it as 1977. A: Yeah, I don't remember, it could be. Could be, could be, yes. I didn't go to America yet. Yes, it was '77. Q: When did you decide to settle down in the States? I read somewhere, it could be 'Reggae Bloodlines', that you were eager to go even in the mid seventies, you had relatives up there in Brooklyn for example. A: It was my wife. I was married to a girl that was living in America, y'know. Q: And that was in the late seventies you finally migrated. A: I migrated I think '79, on and off. But I actually reside there for twelve years between '84 to '96. Yeah. But during the year of '79 I got there on tour, and back and forth although my wife was living there, I wasn't residing there. But I was going and coming on musical trips, yunno. Yeah. Q: What was the controversy when you made a statement in the mid seventies, I think it was an interview where you said that 'His Majesty had possibly passed physically'. How did this affect you, what was the turnout of that stuff? A: Yeah. I did not understand this fully, but now that I've grown older I realised I had stated it wrong, 'cause I didn't understand it fully. 'Cause it was a controversy surround it that even Boothe and other people went to Ethiopia, came back and said although people had said His Majesty passed, they had a decree out that He was wanted dead or alive, and this is where people came back and said that they just buried Him or someone found His bones there. So actually what I think, His Majesty being who He is, I think that no passing took place, He just left. I had to rephrase what I had said that time, because I was younger and did not have much understanding of the situation. So, I am saying that Rastafari live, yunno (chuckles). It was like, I was naive at the time. I was unstable, I was put on the spot with the question and I just answered off the top of my head what I thought at the time. Yeah, but now that I've gotten a charge... Hey, you're the first person who has brought up this topic (laughs)! Yeh, you've gone into a lot of study! I think it's Neville Willoughby (then at JBC) in Jamaica I was doing the interview with. Yea, was an interview that I was doing, and he asked me that. So I was saying that "Oh, He have the power to leave the flesh", an' t'ing. You know? Q: Able to do whatever. A: Yeah, but it was just that I had an understanding of at the time. But further checking had proved to me that He didn't even leave the flesh, y'know (laughs)! Yeah. 'Cause as I said the controversy is where Haile Selassie just disappeared and nobody know what happened.

Q: You had made a comment in the late seventies that you felt as a Twelve Tribes member, a devouted Rastaman, that even singin' was on a vanity route, at least being involved in the music business. Were you even close as to give it up for this reason? How much was this like back and forth, like some type of inner conflict in your mind at that period? A: Yeah, the reason for thinkin' like that was like because of the hardships we were having with getting payment, and this was something I wanted to live off. And I was finding it difficult, because all the producers were actually just using, y'know. Q: Taking as much advantage as they could, same story. A: Taking advantage of the situation. And now I was projecting the Rastafarian lifestyle through the music too. It seems like they were more promoting love songs and everything that was getting this except for Bob Marley who at the time was like the stronghold. Yeh, but after a while I looked into it as that I have... I'm not gonna let nobody really pressure me to get out of this, you understand. So I insisted on it, I stood up and stayed in it. And even when in America I was still doing recordings, like I did an album while in America for Phillip Smart. Q: 'Culturally'. A: Yes. And I was doing lickle shows now and then, but I was there trying to survive so I was doing other jobs, y'know. Because America to me didn't understand or accepted the real authentic reggae songs, so to speak. So living in that system is... you know, today you can see the Sean Paul, Elephant Man, them more leaned to the crossover thing, because I think America want to have an input in the music. That's why I even left and went back to Jamaica, back to the office to try and research so to speak. Because as I was saying I was feeling stagnated in America, wasn't getting to do the songs like I'd like to. I wanted to go back to the roots and get back everything on track. Going back to Jamaica did good for me too, 'cause I did the album for Fatis, although that did not really do much for me in a sense, but it only showed that I was still in it. I start to get Caribbean tours and went to Europe for the first time 'cause people was able to locate me, 'cause Jamaica was where everybody was coming to find 'where were you?', y'know. Q: That turned out to be more of an artistic success rather than benefitting financially. But before we dig into that I would like to ask about the time with Creation Steppers. This guy Willy, one of the Steppers, had told Lol Bell-Brown for the London-based BSL 'zine in the early nineties about your dealings with Tommy Cowan's Talent Corporation and the group's self-produced 'Stormy Night'. Apparently there was the typical quirky type of handling from that distribution outlet. This tune was on your own Star Of The East label, but somehow got on Arab, or any of Tommy's labels at the time. A: Yeah, that was the next member of the group, Eric Griffiths, he was the person who actually funded the session. He was the person who actually wrote that song, we added things to it but I think he should get the credit for writing the song. I have a song named 'Life Is Funny'. We were going to record it, me being a name-artist among the crew, we were going to record my song. Eric was going to fund the session for the 'Life Is Funny'. On the day that we went on the beach and he came down to take us to the studio, Eric came and sing this new song (sings): 'Have you ever been outside when the rain is falling...'. You know?

Fred Locks

Q: Before you continue, that is the original then, because there is a version of that by The Rolands, which is basically this guy Roland Burrell at Channel One. He covered it then? I thought that was the original. A: Yeah, he did it over. This is our song, Eric wrote the song. We set out to do 'Life Is Funny' alone but went to the studio and record both songs. It was the first song we did as Creation Steppers. So when we did that song now, I didn't like how the riddim is - the tempo of the riddim was slow, and I was telling Eric when we're in the studio how I didn't like how they were doing it slow. But this bredda named Calvin Campbell and he was called 'Allah', who used to play with Skatalites after Don Drummond passed, he was insisting that the tune was supposed to be rock steady. So because of that it feel so slow. When Burrell heard the song, he re-recorded it in a uptempo way, and it don't hit beca' we had already done that song. And when we came to England in the seventies, we were singin' it on shows and people had known it because of our version. But this was the time when Burrell was hearing it, because it wasn't just doing well in Jamaica but it was doing well in England, it's like the remake becomes the hit, right. Yes. A lot of people didn't know. Like you know the Little Roy, he wrote songs like 'Prophecy' and 'Tribal War', other people sung them and made hit with them and people thought that they all was the original writers for 'Tribal War', and some people think Freddie McGregor is the original writer for 'Prophecy'. With ours it was a similar situation. So 'Stormy Night', Eric had only enough money to be able to press a couple of hundred copies. Q: Right, on Star Of The East. A: Yeah, and once that was done he didn't press any more really. I think the original sales got messed up too, y'know. Yeh, don't know what happened to them still. That is the original version. But the only record is there as really proof. Q: Willy had said something about the repress on Tommy's Arab label, they went there to collect and then Peter Tosh was present, assisting to throw them out if more was demanded from Tommy. You recall this? A: I don't remember that situation. I remember that they had given Tommy Cowan to deal with it in Jamaica, but maybe I was not present when they went there, I don't think I was present. Q: Unsuccessfully, it didn't turn out to bring them anything what they came there for. A: Yeah, Tommy Cowan was either on (inaudible)... After he knew my song 'Black Star Liner', the first couple of times he was paying the royalties like without any problem, but after a while he was trying to dodge from us. They were doing some shady deal all the while with us (chuckles).

Fred Locks (photo: Simon Buckland)

Q: Willy had said 'we' didn't get no credit for 'Black Star Liner', and what confuses me is if the Steppers were part of that album without getting any credit, I mean what's Fred Locks and what is Steppers? A: That must be some mistake right there. Willy had nothing - nothing, totally nothing - to do with 'Black Star Liner' album. Creation Steppers wasn't even part of that program. We started singin' after my album was done. We weren't singin' together during that time. Somebody must have misquoted Willy. Willy and Eric came as background singers for me when 'Black Star Liner' did well for me and Lloydie Coxsone brought us to tour the UK, they came as background singers. And we shared the stage because by that time they had done songs on that first Creation Steppers album, 'Homeward Bound', 'What You're Not Supposed To Do' and those songs. So when we were on stage I let the people know that we were also a group, and Willy was leading some of the songs. So we did that while on tour but they had nothing - absolutely nothing - to do with the 'Black Star Liner' album. They didn't sing on it, they didn't help to write it, they weren't there. Q: I could quote actually what Willy said in that article: "Fred Locks say all right, I'm gonna stop make records. I say, well, it's true. It don't make sense, I feel like stoppin' also, I'll sing for Israel, sing for the people. Beca' it don't make sense we making any records. Beca' what the use of we making record? The record is sellin' and we are not getting any money. I give up, Fred Locks give up, everybody just give up. Until this day, we - 'we' - still get no money for the 'Black Star Liner' LP'", end of quote (BSL no. 9, 1990). That's what he said. What's your impression of this? A: No, I think it's a mistake, him was talking about the 'Love & Only Love' album. It couldn't be 'Black Star Liner'. I think it's a mistake, it's definitely a mistake. I'm sure it's a mistake, beca' I had known Eric before, but we never used to sing. And when I started singin' with Willy and them, it's after the 'Black Star Liner'. Is when Lloydie Coxsone came to Jamaica and said he wanted to bring me up to England because of my 'Black Star Liner' album. And at that time now, we started to do this album for Lloydie Coxsone, 'Love & Only Love'. I was going to do a complete album, lead-singin' all the songs, but a falling out took place between me and Lloydie Coxsone, 'cause he was not dealing with t'ings fair. So I done four tracks, and the rest of them I was singin' background on Willy's, like 'Homeward Bound' and those songs. And a song a bredda did named Fussy Triston, 'News Carrier'. He was from Willy them area in Rockfort, so we back him up with a background vocals too. But the whole t'ing was surrounded around me, 'cause I was the one who Lloydie had wanted to do an album with. But because I didn't like the deal, I only sing four songs and sing background on the rest, and Lloydie put them together. 'Cause it was like a separate album with Willy as lead singer, and one with me as lead singer, so that's how it work out. But somebody misquoted Willy or thought he was talkin' about the 'Black Star Liner' album, Willy was talkin' about 'Love & Only Love'. Yeah, that's a big mistake.

Q: So you met Lloydie in Jamaica you said? A: Lloydie Coxsone was a person who was coming to Jamaica on and off, because he's a Jamaican. But he was living in the same area like me, Harbour View, when he was in Jamaica. I knew him through his brother, his brother introduced us one time and told him I was a singer. But he used to tell us that he'd be interested in bigger artists because at that time I did not do 'Black Star Liner' yet, him seh he was dealing with man like Dennis Brown and Junior Delgado. So when he came back to Jamaica one time in the seventies him seh: "Me never know a yu sing as Fred Locks, man", yunno? "Blood claat, the tune dem a gwaan good inna England". And him want fe bring me up on a tour, which Boothy dem and the Twelve Tribe people was opposing that, beca' they said him wanted to reap from what they sowed, y'know. And anyhow, but I said that this is my career, I want to tour, I've never toured before, and I wanted to come and deal with it. But it was a thing that cause us to be very angry, because Lloydie Coxsone didn't deal with things fairly even on the tour. He tried not to pay us an' t'ing, after the shows were successful. So that cause Willy to think like how the way he expressed, because we was saying now, like 'Oh, this man no deal with us fair' and blah blah, 'we done with music t'ing', y'know. You see wha' me a say (chuckles)? Q: Yes. A: So me go back a Jamaica an' then the following year me go tour America but Willy dem never leave, they stayed there, y'know, they didn't go back to Jamaica. So that was how that group actually broke up, because Willy dem was saying that dem na going back to Jamaica, go suffer whatever a cause it it was so hard. Right. And that group broke up from then. But the only things we did was a couple songs for Lloydie and the tour of England. Q: 'Voice Of The Poor' was on that album. A: Yeah, 'Voice Of The Poor' and 'Cuss I Cuss I', 'Give Jah Your Heart and Soul' and 'Love & Only Love', that was my four songs that I led. Yeah. You know, Willy's a great singer, I respect Willy. I like his songs, 'Homeward Bound', 'No Further Woman', and the tune deh tough, 'What You're Not Supposed To Do', y'know. Well, he's one of the better lead-singer. Beca' even before we left Jamaica, when we just formed the group, he even did 'Kill Nebuchadezzar' for a producer called Barry who was in England too. Willy just did a remake for Jah Tubbys, which will be released soon. I also did a version of it for Blacker Dread, for an album that I just finished with Blacker Dread too. I don't know when he's gonna release it but I did fourteen or fifteen tracks for Blacker Dread. And I have some new songs out that I did for Gussie P. Yeah. Q: I saw that somewhere, yes. A: 'Mission For The King' and the flipside was 'Weeping & Mourning', I did two more songs out of that. I have a ten-inch, one a remake of 'Vision Of Redemption' and a song named 'Collie Herbs'. So I have four songs out now on the Sip A Cup label, which is Gussie P t'ing. Two records, ten-inch, they have two songs each.

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Article: Peter I (Please do not reproduce without permission)