Q: Back to the Ossie connection again.

A: I was on the corner and trying to break through, but I was doing something with Roy Panton. I don't know if you remember him?

Q: Yes, from Roy & Millie? He's in Canada now.

A: Yeah, that's right! From Roy & Mille, and the song that Dennis Brown did the cover version of, 'Silhouettes', it was a song that Roy wanted to do in instrumental, so he had Bobby Ellis doing it in instrumental and calling it some kind of different name. Pete Weston (of Micron fame) was in the studio and he had a song (sings): 'Took a walk down and passed by your house, late last night...'. And I said to Roy Panton, "Why don't you do the song, vocally?" And he played it - I forget the name of it, and he played it in instrumental, and about two weeks later Pete Weston had Dennis Brown do the song, and it became an instant hit! So there I was hangin' out with Ossie and Ossie said, "Well, I want you to do a song for me". So I sing about three songs, and he selected one which was 'Ishan Man'. That was my first song, my first song.

Q: And it came upon his label, which one was it?

A: It wasn't even Ossie's label, I don't even know what label he put it on. But you know, Ossie was a keyboard player at the time, became engineer.

Q: And Ossie had his Ossie Sounds/Earthquake imprints and was pretty close to Joe Gibbs, he became in-house producer, engineered and arranged for Gibbs at one stage, right?

A: Yeah, Ossie and Blacka Morwell. You know, Joe is an easy-going guy, he was at the time, y'know, didn't let nutten bother him while we didn't have anything to do. We hang out at a certain location, go by his house and cook. It's different from what it is today, and I just wanna let you know a little bit more about the business. Because there's people that make the business, mould the business, workin' the business, and their names was never mentioned. I don't know if people don't remember them, never heard of them, or...

Q: Or simply don't care.

A: Don't care! But there was this man called Drumbago, you ever heard of him?

Q: 'Drumbago' Parks, the drummer?

A: Yes! Nobody even mention Drumbago! And that man, I remember when I came from country - I used to hang out by Prince Buster in Federal studio, when they had one track. And if you listen to songs like (sings): 'There you are mama...' - Derrick Morgan, '... dressed in blue'. Listen to the drums! In those songs you hear that 'boh, boh' - but it's a different kick! Different kick. Rasta Jerry (Skatalites' guitarist Jah Jerry Haynes, now retired), with this lickle bass and with this lickle guitar, y'know. Lloyd Brevett, Raymond Harper, Tommy McCook, just to name a few of these people. They are the founding fathers, they are the founding fathers! At that time, Richard Khouri had one track at Federal, and they had to record and they had to play and sing at the same time. I remember the day when 'Wash Wash' was done (sings): 'Wash wash...', it was a...

Q: Prince Buster.

A: Prince Buster, with Lloyd Charmers, Skully, not Lloyd Charmers - Teddy Charmers, Skully and a couple more people. And they clapped and sung. They clap and they sing at the same time, two or three times. I remember when Raymond Harper played 'African Blood' (hums) 'pada padadadaa', I was in the studio. And I would just like to big up the families, 'cos I know the relatives of people like Drumbago, Jerry, Lloyd Brevett, Raymond Harper, Don Drummonds, Roland Alphonso, Tommy McCook - the old Skatalites family, I would big them up. Let the families of these people know what their father, grandfather or uncle, what contribution they have made this ya reggae music, why this ya reggae music is so big today. It started with those people. Those people, Richard Khouri - that was one of the first man to ever have a recording studio. The other studio was, wha'- Atlantic, became Dynamic (West Indies, WIRL, was purchased by Byron Lee and renamed Dynamic in the late sixties). I was a little boy! I couldn't have been more than maybe, wha', twelve, thirteen, but I learned. Because this is what I wanted, and this is what I was looking for. So a lot of times when they thought I was in school, I wasn't there. I was going off to what I wanted, I was going off to what I loved. And I remember Bob, Bob Marley and I was very close, we had mutual respect for eachother. We always pass eachother, and when I opened my first record store, he tell me - I went up to Hope Road to look for him one day, and he said, "You are always doing somet'ing, you're always trying". "You reach here to take ten each of all my albums, pay me what you can pay". And then he just send a guy - he send his salesman to my record store, they call them 'Wailers'. I never notice the name, but everybody that was around the Gong was the Wailers, everybody was Wailers (chuckles).

Q: Where was the shop?

A: It was at Eastwood Park Road on the other side of Odeon Theater, right opposite JBC (the Jamaica Broadcasting Corp. became part of RJR later on). It was called Sun Bird Records. And I had a record shop down on King Street too, that was Telegraph Records. Yeah, but you know seh Bob see I was always trying.

Q: What time did you set up those shops?

A: In '74, and the other store I pack up, came uptown and I run the other store from about '76 to 1980. But I was also doing a lot of travelling at the time, 'cos 'Miss Hard To Get' was released in Guyana and stayed on the charts down there for eighteen weeks. So, along with myself, Barbara Jones, GT Taylor, Prince Edwards - the Fireman (comedian), Tony Ricardo from Trinidad/Guyana, Glen Peach, Tommy Bash - these were people from the Guyana/Trinidad. We did a tour of Guyana, Surinam, and French Guyana which is Cayaam. That tour last for about six months we're down there.

Q: Wow.

A: And it's Dutch country, but reggae music was takin' its toll down there.

Q: You don't learn much about the popularity of Jamaican acts and their touring circuit in other parts of the Caribbean at the time though, maybe Trinidad, but this is news to me.

A: Right, right. So you know when I went into Surinam, the only thing I knew they called me 'Englishman', y'know (chuckles). You know, 'Hey Englishman!' (laughs). Yeah, it was so funny to see they called me 'Englishman'. I remember one night I wanted some milk, 'cos I was havin' an absessed stomach and they told me if I get some milk, then... so I went to the store and I aksed the guy if he had milk and he didn't understand me, so I said 'Milk!' And he just said 'Wha'?' I said 'milk?', so I did try to get milk. So I came up with a smart idea, so I look at him and I made a sound of a cow. I said (imitates a mooing cow!) 'uummmmm!' He said, "Oh! Mčlluk!" And (laughs) - that was so funny! You know, I got the milk. But when you travel to these countries and don't speak their languages it's kinda hard, y'know. I'm plannin' to beat... I'm doing a festival in Brazil in July, and I speak Portugese very well right now. But I still have my tape and my CD player and I could get around. I can get around, but I'm learnin' more Portugese, because I might be livin' down there soon. Jimmy Cliff is living in Salvador right now.

Q: Right, I heard he's in Brazil a lot of the time, and Joe Gibbs too.

A: Yeah, well, I was down there with him, because he was trying to establish a lot of things. But Luddy Crooks is down there now and a lot of people from England, I heard Chips (Richards, Sky Note?) is down there, Bill Campbell (B&B label) very regular. But they're all in Sao Luís, but I'm going to Belém, that's where I really love, Belém. That's where I might end up.

Q: What other people moved there? I know Junior Marvin, the Wailers' guitarist ended up there for a while.

A: Right now, a lot of American and Caribbean reggae artists/singers is moving into Brazil. It's very loving, it's very peaceful, like today Saturday twelve o'clock, I know in Sao Luis all the stores are closed twelve o'clock and everybody go to the beach. And they play music, do barbeque, partying. It's just a lovely place to be. It's very peaceful and lovely, I hope that it's keeping that way, that it never change. Because if you're looking for peace of mind right now, I think that's the best place to find.

Q: Yes, Brazil is indeed an attractive place. Then you have the depressive, darker stuff that shouldn't be left out: corruption, gang wars, street kids and serious poverty beside that.

A: Yeah, well, basically Brazil has 52. 5 million people, and has about twenty different little countries, little islands itching on to it, y'know. So that will happen, but it depends on where you choose to live.

Q: Right.

A: 'Cos if I'm gonna leave New York, I'm not moving to another big city. And as far as I can see, if I can live in New York, then I can live anywhere else in the world. Because when you live in New York the first rule is to mind your own business, and wherever you go the first rule is to mind your own business. And if you mind your own business you can live as long as God help you, he choose for you to live, y'know, because then you'd be out of trouble.You see and you don't see. But if you see things that don't belong to you and you wanna meddle into it, people gonna do what they have to do, because it's a jungle out there. Yeah. So, I don't even know a word about, because the cities that I know I don't have no problem. And, I don't know, maybe because I'm an artist and I always have security with me, I always have people watching my back. So I'm in a different position, 'cos I always have security wherever I go. Like in Brazil for the stream that I pull, I can't even be normally walk the street. I remember when I was at a drug store, I was in there for about ten minutes and I look aside and I saw like twenty people staring inside. And when I looked back in another ten minutes I had about a hundred, and they had to pull the shades down. Basically when I'm going to the store I ain't going anywhere else, they pick me up and take me directly to the location, and I do what I have to do. I pick all my buying for shoes or clothes or whatever, jewellry things. And I go straight to the drugstore and I stay inside there and they take me back, and I go back to the hotel. I don't like walk around in the streets and all that sort of stuff. When you're an entertainer, whenever or wherever you are popular, you can't walk the streets. I remember I did a concert, I was changing my clothes, and I was in the trailer changing my clothes and I heard a sound, and when I looked a couple of ladies ran through the trailer, grabbed my pants and my shirt I was takin' off, changing, and they ran away with it!

Q: (Laughs)

A: (Laughs) You think it's funny, but they just want a piece of you! You know, people try to pull my ring off the finger.

Q: A trophy or whatever, souvenir.

A: Right. I have a strong security, his name is Avery Joseph. He weighs about three hundred pounds and he's broad, so anytime somebody try to grab me I run behind him (laughs)!

Q: (Laughs)

A: (Laughs) Yeah! Very big. If you get a chance to see him you will see him.

Q: So you left Ossie and moved over to Joe Gibbs and tried something there.

A: Yeah, I moved to Joe Gibbs and I did a song called - I did a couple of songs, I did 'Youth In My Kakhi', and I did a series of songs for Joe Gibbs that was never released. Maybe about six of Nat 'King' Cole songs. I think I did (sings): 'Mona Lisa, o Mona Lisa, how I love you... tada tadi tada...'. I did a couple - quite a few, I don't know what became of them, and up until I did 'Send Me The Pillow'. But I was recording for Joe Gibbs steady, and this was out of the era when 'Send Me The Pillow' bust up. But all those recordings was never released, I don't know if he knows that he has them. But Mr Thompson (now deceased), who was the engineer at the time, Errol should know that they have them. And then I went down to do that album for Harry J, did you know about that album?

Q: The one I'm aware of is the 'Greatest Hits' LP for Prince Tony's label in the mid seventies. But there's one for Harry too, right, I forgot about that.

A: Yea, that's some of my better songs, some of my better songs. And the national anthem song for me in Brazil came from that album, it's called 'Poor Man's Portion' (sings): 'I know nobody now, it wasn't so in the beginning...'. Anywhere I go they sing this song in South Central America, because that's a big song. I think a couple of guys has done it over, I think Honey Boy has done that song over. Somebody else, too, it look like somebody did it over in Brazil there, and I think it's one of the Brazilian artists has done it over. But I did twelve songs for Harry J: 'Dance With You', 'One Step Beyond', I have them here. That album was also released in Europe. Then I did an album for Prince Tony. No - after I did this for Prince Tony I did the Harry J album. But I just like to say that in those days, artists was not paid, y'know. We didn't make any money. A lot of people don't like when you touch on those, so who knows.

Q: But it's necessary to point it out too, to try and set the record straight.

A: Right. I was not educated in the business, so when I write my songs, producers used to take the publishing and take credit for work that he didn't do. And that goes for Harry J, because all the songs on the album I wrote them! And I just found out about a year ago that he had published my music under his music thing, and as 'writer' and 'producer', an' that's very bad! But I'm claiming the album now, so they can go ahead and do what they wanna do. Because all these people that I did recording for would never give me a statement over all these years. They're still selling my products, and it's take-back time now! I'm takin' back every single work that is out there - they are mine! M I N E! Mine. And I'm putting them out, because I'm gonna make my money that was not given to me. And this is a message I'm sending, to all the artists out there who was ripped off, who was not paid, and the product is still being sold out there by people: Go ahead! Your music, your songs, is your property during your lifetime, and fifty years after you're dead. So this can go on for generation to generation, your kids copyright, great grandkids, and on and on. And put that in your will! And it will go on to all these generations, making your work will automatically goes on through your generation to your children to your grandchildren. They don't even have to copyright it! You know, I don't like to touch on these topics because they make me very angry. It makes me very angry, because all those things that Joe Gibbs and I used to do - yes! But he never paid me for 'Send Me The Pillow', and I was the only one who made 'Send Me The Pillow' - it sold half a million copy! And we had big things on that! He never paid me. When Mrs Hugh made up the royalty statement to give me, I told Mrs Hugh that I was workin' at the studio at the time when I did the song. He never paid me no royalty. That song sell, sell, sell, and it's still selling. It's now mine - M I N E! Because none of these producers can take me to court for anything - you know why? Because they will have to show the judge documents. It's my voice, it's my times, it's my music, and I was not paid for it. I have children...