Q: And there was no contract whatsoever, no signing?

A: No, they have nothing.

Q: So it's yours, or should be.

A: Yeah! And they have a limitation of twenty years, it's dead! Because firstly, they should've leased these things from me for a period of time. Now I'm educated in the business, I know they should've at least - it doesn't matter how long, they could've me sign at least for a hundred years! If I had signed at least for a hundred years I couldn't claim these things, you know that? 'Cos they would have them for at least a hundred years. They have no documents. And all I'm saying is that they didn't pay me. You understand me? They didn't pay me. They made their money, they didn't pay me. They did not pay me! I wouldn't want to go too deep with the business, into the interview, but every side have another side.

Q: Exactly, and almost every artist from this era have the same story about that.

A: Right. And I remember when we used to sit on the corner right there at Idlers' Rest, and if we didn't make no money that day, then whoever made money would share with you. If Freddie McKay had a ten dollar he would maybe give me two or give Keith Poppin two or maybe give David Isaacs two and another artist like Horace Andy two, and he would give two and the same thing the next day, with he who had not made money. And the day when everybody come in and he want to do a show somewhere and he bring the advance come, and everybody made money. And so forth and so fifth.

Q: You had to get together.

A: Right. And everybody would have to come to Idlers' Rest, Jacob Miller would have to come there. We were very happy when Bob (Marley) passed through. You felt very comfortable around him, and we didn't know what it was, that he had an aura with him, that he was chosen. He was a Messiah, he was a prophet. But there was something about him when you were around him: you felt good. You felt comfortable, you felt safe. You just felt good, you didn't want him to leave. 'Cos when he left he took it with him! And I don't know how deeply spiritual some of the other artists were, but I felt it and I knew it! And that also made me feel very close, because we was like some buddy-buddy, you understand? Like, if you see him up the road and you see me down the road and so forth, so fifth, but whenever we came into contact we had that brother-feeling - you know that somet'ing special? I remember when Skill (Cole) used to come when I had a problem. And I was trying to get away from Skill, and I ran across the park and Skill ran after me and there was a little commotion, and Bob came over there and said, "Skill, wha' yu an' Jackie have?" And Skill was, like, get stubborn and all that, and he took Skill's hands off of me. He said, "Wha', yu seem to trouble him? Leave him alone! Don't trouble 'im! Leave him alone! Tek yu hands off him! Lef' the man alone! Lef' the BUMBACLAAT man alone!!" And he walked away - and I felt good, because of all the people that was there at the time nobody said: 'Leave him alone'. It took the Gong! He just walked from where he was. And may his soul rest in peace. If there's a life after death I'd love to see him again. Yeah.

Q: So we're not talking big jealousy among the Idlers' Rest crowd for his overseas success, you felt proud somehow.

A: No, everybody wanted everybody to do good. You understand? Everybody wanted everybody to be successful, so you were very happy when somebody did great. Like, when Jimmy Cliff came in 'The Harder They Come', that day everybody was looking forward to go to the movie to see Cliff! That was our boy! When Eric Donaldson was bustin' out with 'Cherry Oh Baby', most people know already that he was gonna win, so we were going there to support him to make sure that he won. You understand me? So, it's not like today, you look at the dancehall thing and the artists of today, they need getting an understanding of what used to happen. And I just wanna tell you, that I am very deeply, very, very spiritually inclined. I believe in God, I know there is a God, I know there must be a God. Because man cannot run this system, man would've destroyed this system already, if there wasn't somet'ing bigger than dem a control it. So me know there is a God. I, me, Jackie Brown, I am an instrument of life, an instrument of nature, an instrument of God. And that is when I sing, I sing to carry a message. I can't sing for the Devil and mek Devil tune and Devil satisfying tune, and derogatory tune. Because I am chosen by the Almighty to do His work by bringin' joy an' happiness to the broken heart, the saddened minds. And this is why most of my songs is love songs, beca' God is love. I nah sing no violence. Because when we pray to God, the prayer go forward up to Him, and the answer come back. So the Devil is there, so when you sing Devil song, yunno, a destruction you will down 'pon yu people, yunno. You see all them violence wha' gwaan 'pon them state a Jamaica weh dem a artis' dem a fight an' a cuss bible - a Satan program dem deh! An' the Devil a run dem t'ing da way deh. You no see, when dem have like Heineken Startime an' the whole a artis' group, a God dem t'ing deh, yunno. The pickney dem jus' come out from somet'ing an' come suck up the loving. Right. You look - let me tell yu somet'ing; if you turn on your TV you see people inna Asia 'pon yu TV screen, but when you work you back 'pon the TV, you nah see nobody inna it - but the people dem come inna it. If you listen to your radio like how you an' me a talk ya now, ya 'ear me through your phone - open your phone, me not in your phone, me deh ya a New York. But I am an instrument, so I receive the message from the universe, yunno. Me is like de receiver, yunno, I receive from the universe an' bring forward to the people, yunno. So my message have to be good! But, fe an artist of my calibre, I don't even get credit! And I don't lick out 'gainst that, ca' me help a lotta people. I don't get no credit. Some guy up there a say: 'This a Jackie Brown', and they say 'Who? Jackie who?' Because my message too rich fe dem ears, dem cyaan hear my message, beca' dem a heathen! You haffe deal with love and God fe hear my message so. But I going sing till I die, an' I going sing for God an' I going sing the songs 'Let's Give Love A Try', 'Why Didn't You Tell Me That You Love Me', 'I Wanna Dance With You', yunno. 'Send Me The Pillow (That You Dream On)', dem kinda tune. Because people waan - the housewife 'pon a Saturday want turn on her radio an' hear a nice love song, or she inna de washroom an' a wash, washing the clothes to the weekend, an' she waan turn on the radio. She no waan hear 'bout no gun or no lootin' or no shootin' or no stabbin' or no killin' or no rapin' an' all dem sort a t'ing deh. That is destruction, yunno, and that is why me respec' man again like Bob Marley, Burning Spear, Luciano, y'know. You see Sizzla? Sizzla is a good artis', yunno, Sizzla is a very good artis'. He might not be all that a good singer, but him is a good artist. Because him carrying a message, 'im always carry a message. Me love the artis' dem weh carry a message, yunno. If yu a carry a message you are my artis', man. Capleton an' dem man deh, Junior Reid an' dem man deh, you haffe carry a message. Ca' if you nah carry a message, you nah seh nutten! But everybody cyaan carry the same message too (laughs)! You understan' wha' me a seh? Everybody cyaan carry the same message, everybody don't haffe bu'n fiyah - but some fiyah fe bu'n still (laughs)! Yu understan' wha' me say? Some fire haffe bu'n! So with my vibration dem a bu'n fiyah too, with my song dem a bu'n fiyah. So me have dem bu'n fiyah, 'cause we a bu'n out the wicked dem, yunno. You understan'? An' dem man deh haffe tell dem, tell de wicked seh dem a wicked! Sanchez is a very good artis' too, him is right up my street, 'cause some artists haffe sing fe de ladies, yunno. Some singers haffe sing directly fe de ladies, me an' Sanchez sing fe de ladies. Richie Stephens, Morgan Heritage, Beres Hammond - we a sing fe de ladies. We a more deh 'pon the love light, yunno. And then yu have de message people dem now weh a bu'n fiyah - nuff fiyah too!

Q: I see. Tell me more what became of that Harry J album.

A: I think it came out about 1977, it's called 'Third World Children'.

Q: Right, this is the one that deserves to come out again. As far as I know it's never been on CD.

A: Yeah, right. But I work 'pon it, ya know. I have a tune 'pon it, bad tune on it (sings): 'They wanna be born, they wanna be born, children of tomorrow they wanna be born, would you pledge Jah Jah they must be born, let's get together and give them a hand, they are crying out we a suffer, the children of tomorrow don't let them suffer, they see pollution on DNA, they see destruction waiting on their game, they are saying Lord we are gonna stop our children from dying, Lord don't let them suffer...'. Is all dem t'ing deh a vision, yunno. Beca' me used to see all dem violence an' t'ings deh weh a gwaan. If I did deh 'pon the other side of the fence or waiting fe come inna dis world ya, I wouldn't even waan come. God make separation and destruction. Beca' wha' a lotta ways used to deh come every day an' we jus' eat an' drink, and drive in our pretty car an' change and shave and put our clothes on, have money in our pocket - a no dat God mek we offer. You cyaan defeat your purpose, y'know, you haffe find your purpose, yunno - there must be somet'ing beyond what we doing, but we haffe find we purpose. Beca' there are billions of beings in the universe, in God's Kingdom, waiting on to take our mortal body to become mortal human being to perform the works ya. So when we deh ya we a waste time, we a hol' up somebody who waan come manifest dis ya t'ing among whe a gwaan now, nuh true? True. Yu understan'? But, y'know, the more dis interview a gwaan is the more, y'know, me haffe sing for it. An' everyt'ing me haffe say to you, yunno, is a nobody idea, y'know. A man might no like it, me might seh somet'ing weh somebody nuh like or somebody don't believe in, yunno, but every man is entitled to his own views, don't it? Well, all right! This is what I believe in: Me nuh a come in dis world fe down on nobody or put down nobody or this and that, envy nobody or hate nobody or hurt nobody. Me jus' come inna dis world with love, sing me music, y'know.

Q: You've done that well. In your opinion, why do we look upon reggae as a message music, I mean, once upon a time it was nothing like that.

A: Let me tell you somet'ing; it come right back inna dem time deh people used to jus' sing love songs, sing about - Derrick Morgan was a very strong, popular artis' and leading artis', and 'im sing like (sings): 'Hey, you a come all dressed in blue, stand up in the corner like you don't know what to do...'. You know (sings): 'Dance with me tada tadadaa - shake a leg...'. Um, 'Manny O' - it's a great song (sings): 'O Manny o, o Manny o, I love you so... ta da tadaa'. Derrick & Patsy (actually a Higgs & Wilson number). Yeah! 'You don't know how much I love you...'. So, Jackie Edwards a sing (sings): 'Tell me darling, tell me you love me soooo...'. You know? So, Owen Gray (sings): 'Millie, Millie, little girl...'. So all a them songs was just love songs, happy songs, you see me? At the time, Jamaica never really have no violence in a dem time deh, yunno. When all a man get killed in Westmoreland, it shock everybody who live all inna Portland. 'Bwai, yu hear seh dem kill another man inna Westmoreland' - it was a big cry fe hear a man fi kill another man a Westmoreland! Ca' the whole a we a hear 'bout it and know 'bout a one man weh dead a Westmoreland (chuckles). Yu understan' wha' me a seh? So, Jamaica never have no violence, Jamaica was jus' love - full love. So you jus' sing about your girl, and tell a girl how much you love her and how much you want her, y'know, and that was it. But as the time start get more romp up with the politics and, y'know, the tricks and so forth, so good, so bad. Because I remember, touch a lickle bit a politics, yes? Me no want fe get too much involved, but Michael Manley father, back in 1960- something, tell the people of Jamaica seh, dem mus' educate the pickney dem. Education is a must! An' (Alexander) Bustamante seh him don't waan no education. Mos' a lickle bwoy I know go back a school in the area, dem seh we mus' educate the children dem! Beca' if you don't educate the children dem, dem a come out to be bandits and robbers. Beca' dem be on skill, and Bustamante seh: "Give dem salt fish, give dem flour, give dem sugar, we nuh waan no education". Daddy Manley say: "When twenty years from now come, watch wha' go 'appen!" I dunno if anybody memba, because whe dem a try 'appen, yunno, yu cyaan even blame de yout' dem, yunno, you cyaan blame the youth dem. Dem have a right to go slide, dem have a right to this world. Is the people before weh used to make preparation fe all of us, yunno. And up to now, is the people here right now, supposed to make preparation for who is coming after us, yunno. And if you don't make no preparation, dem a go doin' war and rumours of war and bloodshed an' all dem sort a t'ings! Me nuh waan fe really put this inna de interview, but... Ca' if a yout' grow up, an' him don't learn fe read an' him don't learn fe write, an' him don't have no skill, an' he reach nineteen an' twenty, an' him have him girlfriend an' dem have sex, an' him girlfriend get pregnant, an' she goin' have a baby - now him haffe provide fe she and the child an' him don't have a skill, don't have education, don't have a job! How him goin' feed dem?! But him entitled to that rights, fe have a woman. Ca' the bible say him mus' have a wife, an' him entitled fe have sex, an' him entitled fe have a child! So, if the people before, if him mother and him father, them make sure seh when him cyaan go a school, give him a trade! If him waan him can become a fisherman, or a carpenter, or a shoemaker, somet'ing weh can bring money. Him no have fe come rob! Who rob? Beca' when him rob it's not right, but a man haffe do wha' him haffe do! An' we cyaan see't, yunno. We cyaan see it, ca' we too corrupted in our own way. So wha' we need fe do right now, yunno - is Jamaica yunno, the world, yunno, we need fe start make it... break down the house, an' start build it up back! Dem lickle one ya weh a come now, mek - mek we try give dem good school, yunno, give dem trade, and twenty years from now dem have skill and trade, and can find job. So when me send my yout', my personal adapter, yunno, yu understan', when my child go a school an' educate herself, dem stay with a car an' go get them - dem a rob her. But, is because I help my own to be somebody, beca' if my own not able to help herself, wha' dem a go whey? Dem have child, dem haffe go rob somebody. So we haffe go equip the pickney right too, so dem don't haffe grow up twenty years from now to become robbers and thieves and bandits. An' we cyaan put them down, beca' we nah put no preparation fe dem. We haffe mek it mandatory! Mandatory that every child supposed to go to school Monday to Friday. The government of Jamaica I talk 'bout, and the governments of the world. You see dem a fight fe power to put money in them pocket, and when them get money them fe help country, them put it inna dem pocket. Dem fe build schools! And you haffe find a parents, charge a parents, lock up a parents, beca' it nah tek nutten fe get up a mornin' time an' dress the child an' send the child to school. And in the meantime, you help the parents dem know that it's not skill to go to programmes that dem learn a skill, so we gweh help the kids dem weh gwaan a school, and we gweh help the parents dem weh no have no skill. And we goin' to put the country inna de right direction, and this world will become a better place - wrong or right? Right. You understan'. Me no waan talk too much 'bout that, ca' music me a talk 'bout, but me jus' a show you some facts, nah true?

Q: True. But Jackie, why should we leave this out of the interview, like you said? I mean, sometimes you have to bring up those kind of issues, it's important to emphasise these things too, isn't it?

A: No, no, is your interview, man. If you like wha' me say jus' write what you like, man (chuckles).

Q: Well, it certainly reflects in your music as well, right? I think it's too important to leave out.

A: True, true. True! Me glad wha' yu understan' whe me a come from, me glad yu understan' wha' me a say, because is care me care, yunno. Is care me care why me a say dem t'ings, ca' sometime me heart bleed, yunno, sometime me heart bleed. Sometime me see all a yout' inna de street, sometime me a look 'pon a man an' me seh, me seh: "Yout', yu alright? Yu 'ave money?" And so me a give a yout' a ten dollar bill, yunno, or a five dollar bill - the yout' haffe eat! Dem haffe eat, an' dem entitled to every rights. Beca' there's a human being, an' dem come inna dis worl', but we haffe make preparation - we have to. An' me tell this to the world, to whoever read this interview: let we jus' make this world a better place, because fe make this world a better place, it will be better, yunno. I cyaan change it, but I can help with ideas to change it and if you listen to my songs, you will know my that I have good ambition. Right now I don't make no money off the music, right now I don't make no money, but I hope to make somet'ing. But I don't really make no money offa de music, 'cause I get a lotta fightin' in de music weh I no like to really talk 'bout still. But I get a lot of fight inna de music, for me is a good performer, me nuh know if you know that? Me is one of the best performers, one of the best performer that come out of Jamaica. Beca' the man, the people who taught me to work stage, was the greatest performers of all times in Jamaica.

Q: Like?

A: You have man named Toots Hibbert. Me work on a Toots fe about two years a next tune, an' open up shows an' a work amongst Toots, an' learn all the skills from Toots. Me learn the skills from Alton Ellis. Carl Dawkins, when the man deh a work stage the man deh work, an' is somet'ing deh weh me learn fe work. An' anywhere me go an' work me work hard, yunno, ca' me not a superstar, me is an entertainer. There's a difference between the superstar an' the entertainer. The superstar is proud, the entertainer entertain. Him come fe bring love an' joy, yu understan'. So when me deh 'pon the stage I don't t'ink I am no better than anybody who come fe see me or like no big-nosed superstar, I jus' deh-deh an' mix an' mingle an' have a good time and make sure everybody have a good time. Me not no superstar, me is an entertainer an' musician. So all them superstar can take backseat, yunno, beca' yu neva better than any artis'. You never better as an artist.

Q: Too much skylarking, right?

A: Right, audience is firs', yunno. Yeah man, me see a lotta juice inna de business, an' me see a lot of things happen in our business, a lot me see. Me lift me hat again to Peter Tosh, 'cause me an' Peter was close too, 'cause me an' Peter used to dere amongst Joe Gibbs. Me work with everybody inna de business, yunno. Me work from Vere Johns come right dung deh now, yeah, sharing the stage with everybody, from Jimmy Cliff, Jacob Miller, Bob Marley, inna dem concerts sah. Me work with everybody - everybody inna my era! Share stage with them. Carifesta. We did a t'ing with Tinga Stewart, did a finalist deh an' a couple more people, I don't recall which tune dem come up with. Yeah. So, me waan tell the worl' me pay my dues. So every world have to pay me back then, the world will pay me back. But if it's not destined that the world will pay me back, then I won't get no pay. Me nah do it fe get pay still, yunno, me a do it fe the love an' bring out the message. At the same time bills haffe pay (laughs)!