Q: There was never any "clear intentions" to actually make a Keith & Tex album at the time? I mean, with a catalog of recordings like 'Don't Look Back', 'Down the Street', 'Goodbye Baby', 'Hypnotising Eyes', 'Leaving On the Train', 'What Kind of Fool', 'Lonely Man', 'Look To the Sky', 'Run To the Rocks', 'This Is My Song', 'Tighten Up...', 'Tonight', 'Walking Down the Street','You Got Me'...? By the way, there's a couple of, probably later, deejay cuts of Keith & Tex songs with Ray I, like 'Tonight Version' and 'Don't Look Back'...

A: Oh, really? Never heard of those.

Q: But never any talk about an album then, since it was mainly singles?

A: No. It's mainly singles, yeah. We had no discussion ' bout that at all.

Q: Maybe you didn't care that much either?

A: Well, I had no other knowledge, you know what I mean? Had no other knowledge about the business at all. I mean, I was just going on faith what Derrick Harriott told us. After all as the grown-up he was the guy with the knowledge.

Q: Looking back on it now, I guess you grow to learn, obviously, but seeing how he treated you, businesswise and otherwise, is there any regrets? Do you feel good about how he approached the managing of your career from that early time in the 60s? Harriott wasn't the heavy rip-off type, or?

A: Oh no, not at all. I will always be thankful for the opportunity that he provided. But I think he... raped us. Particularly because he knew we were kids, didn't know any better. Uhm, and he "raped" us - financially. There was a couple of things that he did that I used later once I became more knowledgable ' bout business. He did copyright our songs, although he put himself down in front of the writer, y'know. But the act of copyright was probably the only good thing he did for us, businesswise. He'd copyright it in the States. I could have ownership later on in life and then take care of myself.

Q: That's typical being young and fresh in the business, signing away a lot of your rights, just happy to be recorded?

A: Yeah, I was doing it on faith hoping the guy would do the right thing, y'know. And he'd pay us, not only... Oh man, we had music playing in England (laughs). I remember one day I was standing outside his shop and somebody, another artist, had just come back from England. And he said "maaan, your music a number one in a England, yunno!" (laughs). I said "what?! - which song?". "Yeah man, 'Stop That Train' a number one a England!". "Woow! You mus' be swimming wit' money!" (laughs). "Swimming with money"!? I mean, I didn't get a buck!! Not even one shilling! (laughs). Not a shilling at the time, you know what I'm saying?! Oh, Derrick Harriott amused us. He never paid us any amount of money that I could say "I got paid!". I never got paid, man. I got like I said uniforms, I got stage shows. Stage shows we got paid (for), y'know what I mean? From sales of the records? Nooo...

Q: No talk about royalties?

A: No. Nothing... No royalties, nothin'!

Q: I guess you approached him about it?

A: Oh, you see, we asked him for payment. We thought, you know, "whats going on?". The music was beeping on the air, the people were buying it - so how come I'm broke?? (laughs). That kind of thing. But we had no knowledge about distribution in America, distribution in England, or worldwide distribution for that matter, you know what I mean? We had no clue!

Q: And no-one told you either?

A: Right.

Q: But hearing about some success, good sales in England and New York - was there any talk of a tour? Or a few gigs overseas?

A: No. We did a Jamaican tour. We never talk about touring outside of the country. We went on an islandwide tour, it was called "The Ton Tone Tonic Wine Show".

Q: Like a showcase of Harriott artists - a package tour, yeah?

A: Yep. Like a package-tour... on the bus we drove the entire island. We stopped on different locations every night.

Q: What were some of the other acts on it, apart from Harriott?

A: Harriott was there, Roy Shirley, Dennis Brown. Who else was on that show...?

Q: The Kingstonians?

A: Kingstonians? No, Clarendonians maybe. But there's a bunch of... Blues Busters. A bunch of top acts. That was really impressionable, to be on that show. I mean, Dennis Brown... (laughs)! He was nine at the time, y'know. He was more like a "talent showcase". We had this little guy who can sing, y'know. And I want you all to hear him! Here he comes and... "little Dennis Brown"! That's before I even went on, y'know, the professional acts went on. Little Dennis Brown, yeah man.

Q: I mean, checking him at that stage, only nine years old, performing at such a tender age, what did you see in him? Did you feel "something" about him at that time, that he had something special to build on, with many years ahead?

A: Yeah, oh yeah. He could handle himself onstage. It was like... he belonged immediately. He wasn't a nine year old kid when he got that mike in his hand, my friend. He started singing and had stage presence. Presence of the stage, man. Better than some of the guys, like me (laughs)! With me who is young in the business, so... I was like 17, some seven years older than him.

Q: After this, what happened next?

A: Then we did more recordings. The 'Don't Look Back'...

Q: 'Don't Look Back'? What was that again?

A: (sings)"If it's love that you're running from..."

Q: Oh yeah. It's a cover tune? Who did it originally?

A: That's a cover tune. We heard it from the Temptations.

Q: That's the song Peter Tosh revived, did much later, and had a hit with.

A: No, Peter Tosh did... wait a minute! Yeah, he did do that song. He certainly did, yeah, yeah, yeah! He did 'Stop That Train' too, right?

Q: Yes, with different lyrics.

A: But 'Don't Look Back'... See, I remember that session too. Hux Brown, guitar. The drummer from The Vikings band, the Vikings bass player. I forget his name now, he was the leader of the band...

Q: Not Jackie Jackson, was it?

A: Jackie? Must have been Jackie? No, no, no... Jackie was the big, dark-skinned guy. Nah, he used to play with Duke Reid. But that song... we knew from the moment it got recorded it's gonna be a good song. You know, in the studio, it just sounded good. I don't know, personally I started singing better, in that stage...

Q: Improved.

A: Yeah man, yeah... Tex and I, we kinda understood now where we stood in terms of harmonies. When I'm singing the lead he's harmonising, when he's singing the lead I'm harmonising, we're switching back and forth. We were comfortable with each other and with the music, y'know. And we were more rehearsed. We were doing shows, and things like that, so...

Q: So now you were mingling with the "premier league" of artists in Kingston?

A: Yeah! In fact, you start getting recognised by the older guys now. "Wha' apn likkle yout'"? (laughs).

Q: Any acts in particular that bigged you up at the time?

A: (silence)... Nah, you heard that from guys in general, Kingstonians, all them guys from my stable, my area, y'know? "Nice, likkle yout'!", y'know. "Nice music, man! Keep it up!". You know, that kinda thing. So, you felt better about yourself.

Q: Can't go wrong with that encouragement.

A: Yeah, I used to hang out at record shops, and listen to the music being played, man. I used to listen to Melodians, you know... (sings) "you have caught me baby, you have caught me...". I said "damn!", those are nice songs. I tried to position myself "how do I compare with these other guys"? Other than the fact that they are groups, four or five guys, and other than the fact that we're a duo, and also the style of music, y'know? So I made those comparisons in my mind and tried to think where we fit in, how we differed. We were more lovers rock guys, y'know. We were more... And it's a age thing too. At that age we were into the pop, it's like the pop music of now.

Q: I've seen somewhere that Keith & Tex were more or less defined as "pop reggae". Not sure if that's fair to say, is it? You being a "pop act", trying to reach the masses with a cheaper, easier and more accessible sound? Reggae or rock steady were hardly established internationally at that time anyway. And your sound wasn't that "poppy" either, not to me anyhow... it still has a rough edge to it.

A: No, no, no. Right. I used the word "pop" in terms of the age group. And the category of listeners we had: Young chicks, mostly women. Mostly young girls! The kind of music we sang, you know what I mean? Other than the early two songs we did, the others were more mature songs now when you look back. Girl-mature songs, right? But it's just the scene I describe when I say "pop". Young girls and screaming and... (laughs)! It's a teenage thing. The other guys, Melodians and them, they were older guys singing older songs. More experienced music. I don't think I would categorise my music that time as pop-rock steady, or pop-reggae or whatever, nah. It's just the atmosphere that was pop, poppish...

Q: Harriott got a lot of critcism for being a bit water-downed, lightweight with emphasis on (more) r&b than Jamaican music.

A: I know what you mean. I don't defend Harriott but I will say that... I don't categorise the music.

Q: You went along with it.

A: No, no. The kind of music... He didn't pick my songs. We brought songs to him. I mean, we brought some songs that he took for himself. He said "I want do this, yunno - is alright?". "I'm so happy, yeah man!" (laughs). You know? 'Walk The Streets At Night', we brought that song to him and he said "man, I like this!". And I sang all the songs that we brought to him that he took for himself. I either sang lead with him or sang harmony. But, he still took 'em. And some of those songs did him good. I mean, he did some serious changes on those songs. Typically, as was his norm, I didn't get a penny! Tex and I didn't get a dollar.

Q: At this stage, getting established in the business, did you go around studios doing sessions with others, like harmonising or whatever, playing guitar? I guess you did stuff for Harriotts stable?

A: No. Well, yes I did. For all the people that... You remember Rudy Mills? Noel "Bunny" Brown? These are the days before he got to the Chosen Few. He was a single act. And later on guys like Scotty came, but initially we had Keith & Tex...

Q: Scotty? He was with Federals then?

A: Yeah, right. But, the Federals came later. Scotty he came from the Federals later, 'cos I don't think after I left Jamaica, I don't think they recorded for Derrick. He had in his stable, at my time: Keith & Tex, Rudy Mills, had a guy named Junior Soul...

Q: That's Junior Murvin?

A: Yeah. Oh, that guy could write some nice songs. We had Phillip, Phillip something...? What was it we called him again... oh, my God?! I remember he was bald at the time, when bald was cool! (laughs). I think his real name was Phillip, but they had a stage name for him. But Rudy Mills was married to my cousin, so I kinda brought him in. But Keith & Tex sang back-up for just about everybody, including Derrick. We did sing good harmony, for some young guys, y'know.

Q: And you didn't recieve any session money for that, of course?

A: No. Nah, Peter, believe me, we didn't get paid - for anything. We got a couple of uniforms, and there was no contract. There was no talk of money, you know what I mean? It was like, you get a handout: "here's a pound"!, y'know? It wasn't structured, it wasn't formalised. It was nothing like that, man. And so it was easy for you to be taken advantage of, y'know? And on top of the fact that you don't know the business anyway. So, Derrick Harriott had a nice little stable of singers. Before deejays and all that stuff came to be but he had a nice bunch of singers. I think he even had the Pioneers at the time. With different music too, it was just...

Q: And this is still '68, still rock steady but slowly changing over to the fast early reggae?

A: Yeah, yeah. I mean, rock steady was simply the bridge between ska and reggae, when the music started slowing down. It was a transition period of what we know now as reggae.

Q: How did you feel about that change?

A: The slowing of the music? I didn't have any feeling on it because that's what I knew. I'm a rock steady era guy. One drop, you know what I mean? (laughs). That's my era. And so I'm a part of it, I knew nothing else. I mean...