Q: What was your impressions of the scene at the Ark, that milieu compared to the military strictness and discipline of your new life and here's a totally loose attitude to things, heavy ganja smoke everywhere, and..?

A: Yeah (laughs)! It's different but it's not like I wasn´t around ganja. I mean, there was a guy who.. a rastaman who lived in front of me. Basically (he) had a little ganja farm. I mean, I tried it too (laughs)! But the studio itself and what Scratch gave me as an artist was this roots sound, man. The floor of the studio was dirt, y´know (laughs).

Q: From most accounts it didn´t exactly look like what you should expect a studio to look like?

A: It wasn´t anything a studio would look like! It was the "anti-establishment studio"! Unusual, because I certainly wasn´t accustomed to that kind of studio. I mean, coming from Federal - and the studios up in the States. I remember I recorded at a place called... gosh! Been a long time.. But anyway, a nice studio in Brooklyn. So, I went from Federal to the studio I recorded at.. this other American studio, and then go back to Scratch, y´know what I mean (laughs)?! So, it's totally nothing (like) I´ve ever experienced. But, man! The vibe coming out of that place, it's just.. You went in and if you the person were inhibited by crap, you would leave the crap at the door. It wouldn´t matter any more, because nobody cared! It's just the vibe. It's that kinda attitude, y´know? And I really felt.. probably one of my best sessions, ever!

Q: Inspired, in other words?

A: Oh, yeah! Absolutely! Totally! I rate that as one of my best sessions ever, in terms of the finished product. I mean, I´ve done things that have sounded better, things that have been more technically correct, but it's the musicians, the music, the mixing, the vibe that I felt, the singin´ - if you put them all together probably it's one of the best I´ve ever done.

Q: The recording and mixing process at the Ark, what can you say about that? The track was down first, it wasn´t like in the 60s when backing and singin´ were recorded in the same take?

A: Yep. Yeah, exactly. We did the track first ´cos remember I was playing also. So we did that and then I went back and did the music (vocals). It took like.. I was so inspired that it took two-three takes max and it was on tape, you know what I mean? We´d do three.. you know, a practice, and then we´d record and "I don´t like that, I can do it better". And then the second "nah, nah, nah - I can do it better, give me one more!". Then the third one you´d take it, because it just went smoothly.

Q: How was Perry's approach to your recordings with him, instructionwise, the ideas he´d put forth?

A: You mean the singing aspect? Actually, Scratch.. See, I was a pretty decent musician at that time, so I pretty much knew how the music should sound. I mean, I was playing in bands by then, I was playing guitar, I could play piano. So I pretty much knew what the music was all about. So I told the guys the chords, "Alright, the verse of the song is this: E minor, A minor, B". And then "the bridge is on this" and you´d "do the bridge for eight bars and then come back to the verse". That kinda way. It was more loose. You just give the guys the chords and say "go!". And everybody settle in and we´d play together and the bassman would feel out his bass-patterns and you´d hear the song coming together, y´know. With each pass, with each set of chords. And each verse that is going by, its getting better. In like thirty minutes, we´re ready to take one. That kinda vibe. So it was like; just an extended practice, running some chords, and then you´d tighten it up and Scratch would say "yeah man!", and when he felt something he would come on the mike and say "hmm-mm" (laughs). "Do it like that, do it like dat, drummie - cheer it a likkle to da lick ya!" - you know that kinda way? And then we had it, and take one and we do it just like that. So it took about three hours, y´know.. just jammin´, and then we laid the voice later. It was pretty straight-forward, simple, inspiring, and we had it done.

Q: You certainly didn´t expect anything in terms of a hit when deciding to check out Perry's studio and then eventually recording there after reaching Jamaica, what was your thoughts there?

A: Actually, I just went visiting.. "wha´pn Scratch - wha´ gwaan?" (laughs), ´cos I knew Scratch, y´know. Never did any work with him, but he was there. I just went back there and seh, "let me see if Scratch is doing anything?". Go down there "wha´ gwaan?", and the music came up and he said, "You wanna do a session"? "Yeah man!" (laughs). And he calls some guys, and we´re off and running!

Q: So you said four tracks were recorded? ´Groovy Situation´, ´Living My Life´and..?

A: No, three tracks were recorded, yeah. And it was another track..

Q: That you´ve forgotten?

A: Yeah, because I wrote it there. Wrote it on the spot. In those days, you could do a lot of that. I stayed in Jamaica for two weeks, and then went back to work, ´cos I was still in the army then. And then soon thereafter I went overseas to Germany. So I lost touch again with happenings locally. Especially lost touch with folks in Jamaica. You know, that's been my life in music. It's always been the underpinning of my life. But I´ve not really had, except for the early time in Jamaica when I first begun, as the only thing in my life. Except for that time in Jamaica when I started and for the brief interval in New York when I did music full-time. But I had to do it, I guess, to figure that maybe I should try something else, too. Instead of relying on music. Music is a foundation of my life but it can be very deadly. It can break your heart, y´know? And it's not the music that does it but the people involved in it. They will break your heart, man. And so you gotta have a strong constitution and you gotta know what you want, and you gotta have some talent too. And the business-savvy, to survive, y´know? It's not just reggae music, it's all kinds of music. If you don´t know what you do and don´t go with your head on your body you´re gonna give away your music, you´re gonna waste your time and you´re gonna get heartbroken and for the most part it gonna leave a bad taste in your mouth, so.. I didn´t fulfill what I probably thought was my destiny in music. But at the same time I have a family. I have a life going for me, you know what I mean? And those things are just as important. I´m always involved with music though. Now I have my own radio show. I´ve been doing it for eight years. I service South Jersey and Philadelphia. If I´m ironic.. I play all kinds of music but my specialty is music from those days. And every show I do, I have to go back because that's where I began in music. I tell my audience ´hey, I am a part of the rock steady era, you will always hear rock steady on my show´, y´know (laughs). And you will always hear the rock steady that happened in my day. Now I´m gonna play some dancehall for you, I´m gonna play some reggae for you and play some ska for you too, but you will always hear my music, and every now and then you will hear me too´(laughs). So, I´m still involved in the music, man. It's been my life, its been me - the underpinning of my life. But I just couldn´t do it full-time. No regrets..

Q: Sure, life goes on.

A: Yeah, yeah. No regrets, man. Because, you know, I did the band scene, I did the stage thing, I was out-front. When I was playing in bands I was the lead-singer, the focal point, the out-front guy. If the band made it, it was ´cos I was out there kickin´ ass. If they didn´t it was because I had a bad night (laughs)! I did the recordings. I didn´t become a star, I didn´t make a lot of money. But in another way, I´m still a star. I have my own studio. I can go downstairs right now and I can go start doing a song. My little son now, he is beginning to show some interest. We did a little project together a couple of weeks ago, so.. Those things. And I go to Atlanta. I don´t know if you know Carl Fletcher? Culture Stereo? You know of him, he worked with Scratch too. But, him and I are partners of a studio down there, and we do work. So I go down to Atlanta once a year, spend a couple of weeks, and I have a project there that I´ll go do. And then I´ll release some music up here, he´ll release some music down there, but we´re constantly on the phone, every week, y´know. Talking about things, doing things. So, still involved. My studio (Mixdat, also a label/P.) is more of a project studio where I get my ideas down, and then I just transfer the information to the studio in Atlanta, which is a better studio than mine. So I go down there once or twice a year and do the work. In that regard and the stage of my life that I´m in right now I don´t need to be out-front any more. I´m too old for that (laughs)! But what I wanna do and need to do is to do production work and have a studio running. I don´t have to be the engineer either, ´cos you need young ears - young ideas to make money, y´know? Not just to amuse yourself, so.. That's what I´m into now, writing songs - I can still write a good lyric. Tex and I got together in 1997 and we did this album and we just sat down and wrote songs - in conversation, y´know what I mean? I would say "here's an idea, so where do we go from here"? "Here's this woman who thinks her sugar daddy..", that's the idea. We wrote a bunch of songs for this CD that we did. Just like that.

Q: What's the name of that album?

A: ´Together Again´.

Q: So tell me about the new project coming up?

A: The new project coming up is a compilation of all the old songs that I did. This is my payback to Derrick Harriott, and I don´t care if he knows - "You never paid us any money, well, I´m taking all the songs that we did..".

Q: Ripping him off with his own production..?

A: .. with his own production. "You didn´t pay me.."! We went back (to Jamaica) about four years ago. Tex and I, we did a show down there for Tommy Cowan - from The Jamaicans. We went to Derrick when we visited and said "alright, let's sit down and talk like grown men now, we´re not kids any more". "You´re older than us, so you´re even older" (laughs), you know? "We´re grown men, let's talk about this thing and resolve it". Because over the years I have told him many times that he came up short in life, and he treated us over the years like he thought we were stupid.

Q: Puppies.

A: Yeah (laughs)! This guy must think we´re stupid (laughs)? And so we go back and we sat down and he said, "Yeah, Keith & Tex, I owe you money". He admitted. "So I really gonna have to sit down and work out how much it is..". And Derrick Harriott is still doing the same bullshit! Still telling you lies. You know, here's how it goes: For us to get anything from him we´d have to take him to court. Alright? And we probably would win, and we´d probably get something. But is it enough to set all the costs of taking him to court? Or, we could get a couple of bad guys to beat his ass, you know - put him in the hospital! We could do all of that! But you know what? Tex and I did state of the game. We said "what, man.."? We´ve got families, we´ve got a situation where we might get some chump-change out of it. How much difference in my life is that gonna make? So, I put up curse on him that he will never.. this is my personal curse on him; He will never get more than he´s got! He´ll never be rich, he´ll never exceed what he has already done. He´ll never get any further. And I think it's happening! But I ask God to get him! You know, "please God do me a favour - get this guy" (laughs)! I truly believe if he were a different person, if he had treated us differently - not just us, but all the other guys that came after us, he would have today a bunch of good artists who would bring him more good artists, you know what I mean? And his cuffers would be plenty. He will be making all kinds of money. But you know man, this is a Jamaican music thing. You know, take it all and give them none! And this has really kept a lot of guys from going beyond who they were. A small-town guy, and they never got out of the small-town - because of their thinking. You think small, you will always be small. So, the story on Derrick Harriott is that he´ll get his.. and I´ll move on.

Q: So the content of the new project?

A: All the old songs, and I´m taking them - putting it on one CD. That´ll be that. The second CD will be some new songs that I´ve done recently. I´ve done some projects with Glen Adams, I mentioned him to you last night - from the Upsetters. Glen and I go back, way back. We played in bands together in New York, during a state of my life where.. I guess it was the prime, between twenty and thirty, ten years there that I did a lot of work in New York. During the 70s and 80s.. I mean, a lot of work. I was in some of the top bands in the whole city. Toured all over the place - inside and outside the country. And Glen and I were in a band at one period. So I´ve done some work with him. A couple of my songs are on his CD, called ´Subway Rockers´. Recently released, last year (´02). And I probably gonna do an album with him. So, I probably need about six more songs with him to complete that album. So thats where I´m at right now. I look forward to interviewing guys on my show. I do some emceeing every now and then. When a certain act comes to town they´ll call me and ask if I wanna be the host for them. In a few years, Peter.. what I´m gonna do is review music. I already have it on my website but I just haven´t had the time to do it consistently. My music, my reggae music - I wanna get into that. I want to be a source for people on the internet who wants to know where the good music are, and who is singing the good stuff. I think I am a pretty good judge of my music, not every thing that comes out of Jamaica I like or not every artist that I like make good music all the time. So I wanna be able to be a source, do some nice reviews and probably find another career there. Maybe one of my kids will take over the studio and make it their own and, you know, go on from there.

Q: Anyone in particular of today's old-timers in the music who has the grips of what the music should sound like, in your opinion?

A: Long-timer who has the grips on it? Freddie McGregor.. I admire the guy, man. Consistently involving, getting better with time, sound sweet, y´know (laughs)! I remember saying one day "this man is like a bird", just flying and singin´! Sound so sweet. He has stood the test of time. Clinton Fearon, you have mentioned him earlier, his (new) music is so good, y´know. And I see guys still on tour. Ken Boothe was on tour passing through here, still singing good. Justin Hinds the other day. These guys are still singing music, man. And still sound good! The thing is that they didn´t change with the music. To extend their career, recordingwise.. It's OK! Because not every facet of the music is for you. Or fits you.

Q: You go along with what you know best, simple as that.

A: Yep! There's still a market, y´know? Because the old music is still selling.

Q: Sure, the younger ones come to investigate what they have missed.

A: Yeah, my son is a good example of that. He´s 27 now, but he knows some of the same songs that I like. And we talk occasionally about them. I like that, when the kids recognise... (getting into a childish tone)" Wait a minute! Here's some new music but my dad used to play this stuff when I was six..", y´know what I mean (laughs)? Hey man, it's not that new, partner. It's another lick on it. It sounds like it's new but we´ve been playing this kind of music for a long time now.

Q: And the present crowd-pleasers, new-comers, what are you paying attention to?

A: I like Morgan Heritage, if you call them new-comers.. they´ve been around a while now. Glen Washington is doing good. I kinda like George Nooks, I like the idea that he sing some gospel too, y´know. New-comers? You know who I like? Lukie D. I think he has a pure, sweet voice. It make you wanna get up and kiss somebody (laughs)! Who else do I like? There's some really nice, new artists I like. Guys who would..

Q: Luciano?

A: Of course. Yeah, well.. Luciano, I think he is the one act that is leading reggae music into the 21st century. Whatever he does, and it remains to be seen, whereas he takes the music. There's another guy named Bushman - he´s a lot like him, they sing the same kind of music - the spiritual music, the cultural music. The music that you can hold on to, y´know. A lot of these other singers, they´ve got nice voices and things, but they´re easily forgotten. Luciano, Bushman, these guys music.. they make an impression on your life. And once it does that it lasts. Luciano, to me, is the guy who is gonna take the music on. I am often worried though that we put too much pressure on him. Once Marley came by and left his legacy we try to pull it on somebody, and they cast. It's difficult, ´cos Luciano did good so fast. It may be a bit hard for him to make the next record better than the previous. And on and on and on.. It's so hard to do that! Like I say, I think he is the one that is going to lead us. Maybe that's even too much to ask for. In any range, him and Bushman, the cultural music man will last the longest right now. Mighty Diamonds.. I am still playing their music, man. Never dies. The good cultural music never dies.

Q: What about the ´Arkology´ box set? Thankfully you made it on to that Island release with ´Groovy Situation´. Did you get paid for that?

A: For ´Arkology´? Yes, yes. Yeah, I´ve been and I´m still getting paid for it.

Q: I hope most of the artists featured on it gets paid?

A: They probably are because they came to me actually, sought me out. Yeah, I still get a check every now and then..

Derrick Harriott released an album several years ago with the majority of Keith & Tex´s output - which remains in print, as well as an e. p. of some of the best known songs, i. e. ´Stop That Train´ and ´Tonight´, on the Move & Groove label. You can obtain some pretty solid anthologies of Harriotts late 60s work on the CD ´Riding The Musical Chariot´(Heartbeat). The French Makasound label issued other Harriott productions on the ´A Place Called Jamaica´ collection a while back - both featuring prime Keith & Tex material. Also, keep an eye out for the upcoming double CD release Keith is putting together, at present not on the streets but should be available later this year on his Mixdat imprint. I remember Keith said something off the record, him not being of the same stature as many other artists from the same era - "to even sought out somebody like me". Well, to me he is a very talented singer and someone who could´ve reached further in his career if the deals and circumstances had been more in his favour. Especially with a voice like that - just take a listen to ´Groovy Situation´ for proof. The value of his musical input in Jamaican reggae history is firmly rooted - apart from a bunch of bonafide classics - even by the fact that Keith & Tex records has a certain position within the collectors market. Recently the word was that a original press of a Keith & Tex song got sold for more than five hundred dollars - that's something else, folks.

Special thanks to Keith Rowe for contributing scans from his scrapbook.

SOON COME : INTERVIEWS WITH WINSTON MCANUFF AND WATTY BURNETT.

ALSO READ PETER I's INTERVIEWS WITH :

KEITH POPPIN @ SPACE ECHO

RONNIE DAVIS @ SPACE ECHO