Q: But I believe you've analyzed the business from early on that depending solely on music is not gonna work the way the reggae business was - and is, that's the perspective you got from an early stage?

A: Oh yeah, right. I see where from early days, from I start singin' I see from real early what's happening to people like Delroy Wilson, all the other guys that was before me, I have seen from early days how these people would be singin' for every week or every month or whatever so often you have new music by them, and when I see them they didn't look any different than, y'know, anybody else! And if you have a lot of music playing on the radio, it is assumed that the producers would be paying you an amount where you could live from. And to me I detect real early that these guys is just bent on suckin' you dry of all the emotion, of all the talent and all the ideas that you have, put it on tape, and then you end up penniless! And I decided from early days, I say I'm not gonna let this type of thing happen to me. I said nobody is going to prostitute me out, prostitute my voice, and have everything of me on tape that when people hear me they don't hear anything new, 'cause all of their stuff, y'know, years pass and they have all of this of me on tape. I said I'm not gonna allow this type of thing to happen to me. So it was a deliberate attempt by me not to let anyone producer find me at his studio sitting down waiting for what? And I remember one time I said to Downbeat, I said to Dodd: "You want me to come to the studio?" I said to him: "Listen, the time you will see me is when I have a session or I have tracks to voice, that's the only time you gonna see me". And if I have to go to work at five o' clock, four o' clock I'm finished, whatever I'm doing, it finishes at four o' clock, and I'm off to work. Because at the end of the week I know where my salary is. A lot of the other artists that I have seen, totally just concentrate on music, living off music - and they couldn't live off music anyway! That's one of the things about life, I mean as I say, y'know, you can't tell everyone as to how to live, what they ought to do. You can give people advise, but they live - each person live according to how they think. You think something, that's how your pattern of thinking is the pattern of life, how you think is how you live. So often times I say we have to educate our young ones, see if we can put some guidelines, help them to be more productive, more satisfied with their work, with what they do, so that they're not used by unscrupulous people without compensating, at least they're feeling satisfied that they have been compensated up to a certain point for the effort that they have put in. (Sighs) But... such is life, the wheel of life continues to turn. But I'm not bitter, I'm not bitter about music. I'm pleased that people appreciate really the little in comparison to the lot that others have done. You know, I appreciate people, my fans, who think highly of what I have done and is still doing. Because we had this concert the 9th - last Friday, and we had Hopeton Lewis, Dobby Dobson, Norris Weir (formerly of The Jamaicans), Claudelle Clark and myself, and it was a success. So people still wanna hear more. I mean, people still wanna hear more and I'm satisfied with that. I'm satisfied with that.

Q: In one way you can be thankful over the fact that you came up in an era where the music was still at an infant stage, still innocent, the technique had not reached so far and it has proven timeless much of it, a lasting effort from the early days of this music.

A: Yeah, we came up in a time whereby every man had to stand on their own feet. Because I remember a time when I was trying to sort of map out a path for myself which was not like anybody else. There comes a time in an artist's life that you have to determine OK, do I want to sound like this person or do I want to sound like the other person, and you have to actually find a path for yourself. Because unless you find a path for yourself and get your own identity, you will always be reflective of saying well, you're like this one particular person. To me I should not be moulded in being just one person, I should be multifaceted in what I'm doing. So I'm never one thing, at anyone time. But I'm true to myself but I'm reflective of what is in me and the way I think and the way I live. I should be reflective of that in whatever I do. And it should be reflective of me and can stand the test of time because this is me, is not nobody else. Like when you listen to some of the people that pass, y'know, you listen to them and you can say yeah, this is this particular person. You see what I mean?

Q: I can imagine you demand a lot of yourself and others when working in the studio, the typical perfectionist?

A: Yeah. I demand a lot from me.

Q: Automatically that means a lot of takes?

A: Sometimes. I never take it different. I mean, when I'm singin' one sound I'm hearing other sounds, so I'm always exploring the other sounds. Sometime I just say OK, leave it. You know, you do a certain amount and then you leave it, because to me at all times I want the sound to be right. Because if it doesn't sound right then it's not adding, and if it's taking away from something I've already done, then don't add it to it, let it stay. 'Cause you can reach a certain pinnacle, you reach a certain level where you add so much and then you stop. Because I think more you're gonna spoil it, y'know what I mean. But I demand a lot off of me, and I'm not scared of exploring those sounds or exploring those voices or exploring when for instance I'm working with the musicians. I want as I explain to them often times, I say to them: "Listen guys, I want you to be totally divorced as of what is happening outside and I want you to give me the best of what you have and I want you to listen to it as if you were in tuned to one another". So that the bass is in tune with the guitar, the keyboards is in tune with all the other guys, the drummer is in tune with everybody. And sometimes I don't even go into all my ranges until all the music is set. Because if I go into all the other ranges it would give them too much things to hear, and then they won't sort of concentrate and just lay what I want so that I can do the exploring. But music to me has always been enriching, has always been comforting to me, has always been fulfilling to me, has always been soothing to me, has always been inspiring to me. Music have many facets to me that enriches me each time I hear it, so I try and put some of those enrichments in my own music so that people can be enriched by me.

Q: But within that limited amount of space you had when recording in the late sixties, everything seemed to be so cost-effective, leaving little time to go over whatever you felt missing, was this process you're talking about even possible when everything had to be laid quick?

A: Well, music was like for instance you're going to studio and you say OK, I want to try and get down at least five tracks, right. Now if you want to try and get five tracks down and you want to get four tracks down, music is like what I'd say refer to as if you win the pools or the lotto or whatever they call it, you win the sweepstakes, something like that. When you make a hit it's like you win the sweepstakes or you win the pools or you win the lottery or whatever they'd call it, y'know, it's a gamble. And if everything comes together, then you win. Now you have people who were recording for years and because of the people that is involved in that, for instance when you go to studio in those days and recording, say, you have the drums, you have the guitar, you have the bass and you have the keyboard - and everybody have to be on the same page and you have two tracks; if one man messed up then you have to stop and gone right over everything again. So whoever putting on the session trying to get the best people to work together, and everybody on the same page; you rehearse and you rehearse and you rehearse and then you take it when you've finished that track. But it's hard work! It's a lot of sweat.

Q: Exactly, the collective effort.

A: Yeah! Yea, it is. It's real concentration and when one man messed up, man, yunno you have some guys start swearing and all that sort of thing (chuckles), because they've maybe tried to lay one track for half the night.

Q: Right, it's 'bumbaclaat' all over the place, huh (chuckles)?!

A: (Laughs)

Q: Sorry (laughs)!

A: (Laughs) You know they use a lot of swear words, but they would always say to me that I must pardon them for saying what they have to say - but they swear anyway, y'know what I mean (laughs)!

Q: They're so intensively 'up' in the work they can't help themselves, right?

A: Yeah (chuckles).

Q: It's just a reflection of all the energy going down.

A: Right, and frustration sometimes (laughs)!

Q: Speaking of perfection, if you are too deep down in how you actually want it that must feel extremely frustrating when something gets released and you don't get any satisfaction of the final result, even though you have to accept it when someone else is responsible for the product? You simply couldn't get any further.

A: Yeah, there's a lot of music that I'm not satisfied with even at the stage of the game. There's a lot of music I'm not satisfied with and a lot of music that I say oh, that could've done better.

Q: Different key, tempo, adjust the chorus, rewrite a verse, whatever?

A: Well, sometimes the phrases, sometimes the mood and the moods that I might be in, y'know. There's a lot of music that I feel that I could've done it better. I don't feel that I've reached my best yet, no. I don't feel that I have reached my best yet. I am to the point where I'm totally - I mean there's songs for instance that I did that I truly love because of the way that it was done, like 'Only Yesterday' to me is a classic.

Q: For Joe Gibbs.

A: Yeah. 'My Whole World (Is Falling Down)' again is a classic. 'Jimmy Brown' is a classic although I feel I could've done it better. As a matter of fact I tried to do it better in London but the guys lost a lot of the meat of the song in the mixing. Because you can have a good song y'know, but you mess up the mixing.

Q: That's always a sensitive point, the final mix, the mixing process.

A: Oh yeah! I mean, my wife said to me y'know often times when you bring home something that you haven't finished, it sound better than the finished product. I mean, she have a real critical ear. But as I'm saying music really enriches me, so I'm not - to be honest with you, sometime I feel sorry for the people who get so much and put back so little investment in people that they... those who have contributed to them.

Q: How do you feel for those former employers now, such as Coxson and Duke?

A: Well, you know one of the things that I have come to decide on, Peter, I said to myself 'well' (chuckles), 'why beat up oneself about the dishonesty of others?' You know, you keep on beating yourself, I mean what do you achieve from it?

Q: Wasting energy more than 'achieving' I suppose.

A: You're wasting good energy making these people feel that they are actually worthwhile when they are worthless. Because I came to one conclusion: after a period of years I came to one conclusion that one really does not know... not until you get into actual production of music that you would really appreciate what the producers have to go through to try to recoup the money that they've spent. You have to actually go into studio, spend the money to do your own production, then you'll come to the awareness as to how long it take you to get back the money you've spent. But if you spend wisely, it's an investment that will pay off for itself in time. It might not pay off right upfront, because you don't have the way with all to promote it like the other big guys have. You don't have that facility or the money to do so. But if you have the money to promote the stuff as those people have, you could've made more than what they ever dreamed of making. But I'm not disappointed in where I'm at. I am really not, because I know and I have seen... because I'm a spiritual person as well, we all are spiritual beings; first we're invisible then we became visible. I'm a spiritual person, and so God gave me the ability to see ahead and to see things that others don't see. And if I had reached the level worldwide where I'm able - my ability can take me there - I wouldn't be alive today. I know I would've passed on already. I have seen that, so I'm not disappointed in where I'm at. I'm thankful to God that I am here and I'm OK. I'm not complaining at all - I have nothing to complain about (chuckles). Nope. I'm not frustrated about anything, I'm not in need of anything; God provide for us and my wife and I, we have children - some of them are in London, and I have one daughter here, she's a lawyer. And I'm happy, I have nothing to complain about. My thing is to help others. The stage where I'm at, every day I'm helping somebody else, whether they run short of money or they need food or they need encouragment or they need medicine or whatever, I'm always - my thing is to help others and how I look on it is seeds planting. You plant seeds in life, so you reap benefits.

Q: 'Do good unto others and good will follow you'.

A: Totally, that's how I live. And I'm not concerned (laughs)... you know it amuses me really, it amuses me when I see really what's been happening years back where people have really contributed so much and get so little. It amuses me to see that people who have taken so much, they don't look better than those who they rob from. You know, they look no better. So I'm comfortable where I'm at. My thing is to sow good seeds and reap good benefits.

Q: When you went to record for Duke after your time with Coxson, was there a question of 'lack of loyalty' surrounding that move, even when you were no longer obliged to record for Studio One?

A: No, no, no. The only time you can dictate that sort of term to you is when you are under contract for that person. When I was under contract for Studio One, I didn't either record for anybody else. But when that contract was up, I was free to go to wherever or whoever I feel would give me the best deal. So Dodd couldn't say to me - I mean I heard he weren't pleased when I did 'The Circle Will Be Unbroken' for Dynamic Sounds, did a reggae version for them which was a beautiful record. A beautiful record, I'd love to get a copy of it now. But he couldn't say to me 'how you go and record for Dynamic Sounds?', because I had no contract to him. And my thing, and that time, was to explore which of the liars was the most honest.

Q: (Chuckles) Yeah.

A: And you really couldn't tell (laughs)! Ohh man, it's a - I am amused these days by these guys, I am really amused by them. They don't lie less. Even through the years they still lie the same way, and they're still greedy the same way.

Q: I guess they have 'perfected' their ability to lie even more, if that's what you mean?

A: Oh yeah! Oh yeah, oh yeah. Yep. Probably the name that I would want to call it I wouldn't print it.

Q: Got it (laughs)! Then it was no more contracts for you after the adventure with Studio One, you just worked freelance from now on?

A: Yeah, I just freelanced after that. Because to me during the period of time that I was under contract for him, it didn't worth my while. Any music that I had done, for instance I did 'My Whole World Is Falling Down', and when I went back after over let's say a year, for royalties, he was giving me whatever money - for instance let's say I sold 50 000 records, and say a percentage out of that which I would say probably supposed to be about five per cent, pending on what they decide to pay you. When I go back, any money that I got from him was claimed as advance on royalties. That wasn't saying well, after a period of time this was the royalty due to you. Everything was advance on royalty - you imagine that? Your own money which you're supposed to get clear of any royalties that he had paid to you should be deducted from that and what the balance would be yours, not in terms of advance but royalties was still advance on royalties. Them big time... (sighs). Anyway, let's move on.

Q: Moving up to the early seventies now, how did this deal with the UK major A&M come about?

A: Well, what I heard in '73, 'cause I came to New York in '69 and stayed up here until '71, I came back to Jamaica and started singin' again.

Q: What did you do up there in New York?

A: Actually I didn't do any singin' at all, I just worked. You know, I just worked, odd jobs here and there. I mean I was workin' with a garment factory one time and, y'know, a cosmetic company another time. But I just worked during that period of time. And I went back to Jamaica, because to me it wasn't working out in New York. That part of being in New York was really to me not enriching at all in any way, and that was sort of domestically, that part of me being in New York was - as it were - other people wanted to manipulate me and dictate to me as to live under their rules and regulations, because at the time I was just on a visitor's visa here. And then I decided well, if I was living in New York I had to be working like a mule as it were and wasn't getting anywhere and being manipulated that I decided well, it was too much misery for me, so I went back to Jamaica. And when I went back to Jamaica this guy Stanley Pemington from England found me and said he wanted me to come to London to sing with A&M Records. Because they're putting a group together - Winston Francis and Alton Ellis, they wanted just the three of us. They were thinking of Slim Smith to be the third man, but because Slim had died or... yeah, I think Slim had died then or Slim wasn't too right, they decided OK, I would be the next best person to put this threesome together.

Q: I seem to remember something about this, with Alton saying there was a single from the project bearing your name and Alton's, but it was actually a duet between him and Slim Smith?

A: Possible, yes.

Q: From what I remember they put your name there in case the song would make it, instead of Slim.

A: So what did he say... the song was what?

Q: Your name worked as a replacement for Slim if it would hit, that's how I understood this.

A: What were they saying, that it was Slim's voice?

Q: Yes. Alton apparently stated this years ago.

A: That one is news to me. I would like to hear that track, 'cause I only let me to what I did. 'Cause I would only acknowledge what my voice is on. To me my voice is more than capable to standing on it's own, y'know, than to try and say well, Slim Smith sing a song and they put my name on it. Why? I mean, I don't see the benefit in that.

Q: Neither do I, but anyway that's how it went it seems.

A: And to me - I mean, I wouldn't agree to anything like that anyway. I wouldn't want somebody calling Slim... saying that's Ken Parker, Slim's voice is on the track and they're saying it's me, I would not acknowledge it. I wouldn't want somebody else's voice to be representing me, I'm capable of representing myself.

Q: Of course.

A: I would love to hear that track. If you hear it let me know.

Q: I've been looking for it but I suppose it's pretty rare, that one.

A: (Chuckles) You mean it wasn't printed?

Q: I guess it was printed but just scarce distribution, didn't take off at all. A&M was a big company and I figure they didn't know from A to Z about the reggae market or how to get it widely distributed outside of reggae, especially not at that point in time.

A: Yeah, it was A&M Records but they had this company that was doing the production was called Workhouse Productions. But I have an old track and when I get the time I'm gonna be looking it up, it's on a vinyl, like on a 78 rpm vinyl. They used to call it wax, it was on that. But when I have the time to sort of go browsing I'll see if I still have it and then listen to it and hear what it's saying. Because the only ones I have is with my name on it and with my voice on it. But I'll be intrigued to hear that if you come across it or hear anything definite about it.

Q: I sure will.

A: And definitely I'll make sure that my name is not on it. Slim need to gain whatever recognition he didn't gain while he was alive.

Q: Absolutely. But a 78 (chuckles)?!

A: No, I think that was just for my ear really. I think that was like ten copies.

Q: OK, acetates, 'soft wax'.

A: Yeah.