Q: What was that like, when Spear showed up in '69? A: Oh, they came for audition, most of these came there for audition, and when we heard the man we say yeah. Q: Bassist, arranger, and the talent scout. A: Yes, on Sundays I was doing audition, auditioning those two people, and when I hear them right there in the week, Monday, Tuesday to Friday, recording. Those kinda work I was doing there - harmony. We harmonised for Bob Andy, most of them. A lot of people was inside there. Most of the Studio One stuff that had harmonies, most of the harmonies was the Heptones. My arrangements too, me arranging all of them. Q: That's the biggest nut to crack, getting the arrangements together and make it sound like you want or intended them to sound like? A: It was all easy to me. It was fun, 'cause all of these things came to me natural. I was a natural, you see what I mean. Yeah man, natural talent. Remember this Bob Andy song (sings): 'I'm going home...', and you can hear me sing (sings): 'Got to go back hooome...'. You remember that song? Q: Yep, 'Going Home'. A: Yeah man. 'Baa bo baa boo badaya' and all these things, honest, yeah man. Q: In those years with the Sound Dimension band, who was the main guys, the regulars, on drums and guitar for example? A: Yeah, Fil Callender was on drums, it was Robbie Lyn on keyboards, Rick Frater on guitar, most of them I don't remember. Vin on trombone, 'Trommie'. Vin Gordon on trombone. All the other people who came in and came out of there.

Q: I don't know, did you play out with that band? Was it even Coxson who came up with that name, 'Sound Dimension', that was the name you had originally? A: Yeah, something like that, y'know. Or the Soul Vendors, or... Q: But Soul Vendors, wasn't that Brian Atchinson and Joe Isaacs on drums and bass? A: That was... OK. Well, we were... we were Sound Dimension? Q: Yes, most likely. Soul Vendors is being reformed now by the way, with founding members Joe Isaacs on drums and Atchinson on bass. A: Yeah, OK. Q: So that line-up was pretty steady between, say, '68 to '72 before you split? A: Something like that. I'm terrible at recording time, y'know. Q: Yea (laughs)! A: Yeah man, me no recall time at all. But it was something like that. Q: What was Sylvan Morris like to work with? A: He sort of working for Coxson, man, thought Coxson was gonna give him a big position, for Coxson always making promises. So he thought he was second Coxson there, yunno. He's the one I wrote the song about, 'Hypocrites'. (Sings): 'Where will you run to now...'. Q: That's about Morris? A: Yea, sung about (sings): 'You carry a name, but all you just do it in vain, 'cos all of them done so before, and yet I see them walk through that same door...' (laughs)! You remember that song, 'Hipocrites'? Q: I think I've heard it, yes. A: Yeah man, that's him. (Sings): 'Hipocrite, where will you run to now...'. Yeah man, that was him. Q: But Morris wasn't the only engineer there? A: Well he was the one we were familiar with. Q: I think Larry Marshall operated the board as well. A: I don't know about that.

The Heptones

Q: What do you feel is the biggest achievement as far as Morris is concerned, during his time for Coxson? A: He was into what he was doing, and he was a good engineer. He would take part deep, deeply involvement, want to see that he get a certain sound. And he would work hard to achieve a certain effect, y'know, things like that. He was not in there just lookin' down and taking a song. He had his personal input, you understand? Yeah man. Q: How many track in those days, what was the capacity for that board? Still two, or four? A: Two. Q: Only two? I thought he had expanded that to at least four at that point. A: Two, only two. They had a system, yunno. They would have a master tape and then another tape, a copy. So in the main recording they would do drum and bass on one track, and the other instruments on the other track, right, then they would keep it as the master, with all of that now... they would bounce all of that to one track on a different tape, and keeping that master tape like that open, right. And then he bounce all of that on one track, like mix all of that to one track on another tape, and then have another open track for voicing. So when one version they would go back to the original tape, to the drum and bass stuff, you understand what I'm saying? Q: Understood. A: And Studio One might have a rough sound compared to Treasure Isle, they all have their different sounds, but that is the purpose of a studio. But Treasure Isle, they had their moments, ca' Treasure Isle had some great songs, Studio One had some great songs. I rate Treasure Isle music too, y'know. They had great musicians down there playing and good singers, good songs too. Yeah, maybe that guy would buy better equipment. Q: It's possible. A: Yeah, ca' Coxson is a 'minimizer'. Because what Coxson had was Ampex, I dunno what the other had down there. Q: You had a stint at Treasure Isle too? A: We went there, when we were leaving Coxson we went down there. John Holt and I and the other Heptones did a song together, yunno. Yeah man, 'Let's Build Our Dreams' together (to be found on the Westside release 'John Holt Like A Bolt').

Leroy Sibbles

Leroy Sibbles

Q: Never heard about that one. A: Never heard it? Q: No, not what I can remember. A: Yeah man. Q: How did you find Duke? A: A nice guy, funny. And he would pay you, you would get more from him than Coxson. Yeah. Q: A wonder how you could even manage to continue for Coxson for all that time without getting more than pennies, or whatever it was? A: That's why it got so... that's why I had to leave Jamaica after a while, y'know. That's why people migrate, we singers and all that. Yeah, it was so tough. Q: What was the wage there? When it comes to pay the bills and rent it's not much left I guess, I suppose you had to play out for a better income. A: We were doing a lot while working in the studio and there is a small change at the end of the week, it was like what a factory worker were doing, nothing else. But we were kids, so it wasn't going so bad for us yet. We had not all this responsibility as adults, you understand, and that's what he used against us. We were like kids, so it come like fun, not realizing that this is the future. So it's just like we're robbed without a future. Him robbed us our future now, man, the future should be the better, man. Q: Were the Heptones ever offered a tour in those days, especially when 'Fatty Fatty' got to be such a success? A: No, Coxson was so tricky and brainy that when we broke with 'Fatty Fatty' it was a big hit in England there, that a tour came up because of the song, people want to see us. You know what Coxson did? He took artists like Ken Boothe and other people on the tour, and we sat there lookin' and watchin' not even realisin' that we were supposed to be on that. But we never did a tour in those times. Q: There was never talk about joining a package tour, even just round the island or the Caribbean? If Coxson ever organised this sort of thing? A: Never. We never toured while we were at Coxson. All the tours that we did was long after. We did a tour with Toots & The Maytals, when we did that album for Island Records. Q: 'Night Food'? A: Yeah.

Q: So being 'off the hook' at Studio One, who did you go to? This was in '72 or thereabouts? A: Joe Gibbs. From Joe Gibbs we did a t'ing called... Q: 'Power To the People'? The 'PNP song'. A: Parties pick up any song and use it when it's suitable for their purpose, you understand, it's got nothing to do with the artists. Right through all the time with politics, they will be pickin' songs and using them, but has nothing to do with us. When me sing 'Power To the People' me mean all the people, all the people in the struggle, y'know what I mean. Yeah man, all the people who need liberation. It is for no politician. But we did an album now... yeah, 'Heptones & The Now Generation'. But they've got so much name of that album. Q: Yeah, I've never heard that one, and there is another one called 'Heptones & Friends'. A: That's it, man. Q: Another LP called 'Cool Rasta' that appeared on Trojan like the other one, 'Friends'. A: 'Cool Rasta' is a different. But 'Now Generation' and 'Friends', that's about the same album. Q: Did you know at the time about those records? A: Mmm. But them two name I don't know all now, that's the biggest infidelity. A even two deal went on there, yunno. Q: While at Studio One, you had a little 'side project' too, a duo with Anthony Ellis, or 'Rocky'. A: Yeah, yeah. Q: I think it was simply Leroy & Rocky? A: Yea. Yeah man, Rocky was my good brethren, even more than the Heptones, yunno. Heptones was friends, Rocky was my brethren. Q: What did you record with... A: Rocky?

Q: Yeah. A: (Sings): 'You cannot leave me girl, you cannot go, you must not leave me girl, 'cause I'm falling in love with you'. You remember that song? Q: No, what's the title? A: 'Falling In Love With You' (whistles the melody). Yeah man, that was a bad music too (chuckles). OK, but yeah man, that was one of the songs. Then another song with me and Rocky was (sings): 'When you hold me girl, hold me close, when you squeeze me girl, squeeze me long...'. 'Love Me Girl'? Q: Right. A: And there was a song, one he did too, 'I Am the Ruler'? Q: Yes, yes. You were a part of that? A: Yeah man. We done some tune deh. Q: What became of Rocky? A: He went on his own, went to join the Twelve Tribes of Israel. I hear he now resides in the United States, New York. Q: Then you had the 'Book of Rules' album. Most of that stuff became the 'Night Food' LP for Island. Who produced that record again, Harry J and one Danny Ashfield? A: Danny Holloway. Q: Who was he? A: Danny Holloway? Someone from England... um, I dunno where he came from, where the link was. But he came to Jamaica there and hooked up with us, yunno, and oversaw the album for the company.

Q: How do you feel about that album now, 'Night Food'? A: I prefer it to Lee Perry's album, 'Party Time'. Q: How come? A: Well, Lee Perry t'ing have too much "wingi wingi wingi wonga wonga wonga" (chuckles). Q: (Laughs) What was the recordings like at his Black Ark studio? A: Oh God, that was my weirdest experience. Q: (Laughs) Like what? A: Like... strange! Strange place, strange people, strange sound. Like madhouse kinda thing? Oh yeah. Q: What was going on? A: Pure craziness. It was when Lee Perry was heading totally out there, y'know. Yeah man, it was when he put on this astronaut suit, man.

Lee Perry

Q: (Lots of laughter) You just went along with that behaviour? How did you adjust to it, all his eccentric stuff, how did you find it at the time? A: (Chuckles) Strange! Yeah man, it got to be like... 'oh?' He used to go down to Hellshire, took some of the artists and musicians who want to go with him, and go down to a cave pool. I didn't even know we had that in Kingston, a cave down by Hellshire. We go down there and bathe and t'ing and we come up and he dot-marking and x'ed right through the whole place. Q: (Laughs) A: One x'ed the whole studio, man, from top to bottom, the house, him x'ed the roof, him x'ed the ceiling, him x'ed the floor, him x'ed the wall, the gate him x'ed. All the animal them haffe run away, otherwise him x'ed them! Q: (Laughs) A: Him x'ed the cat or the dog, or everybody, man! True. Q: How was work in general on that album, did you do any bass on it? A: No, it was Boris Gardiner, and some other musicians, I don't remember the other guys now. I remember Boris was there, being a bassman I don't forget the bassman.

Q: Gardiner is one of those names, he doesn't get the right amount of credit. A: Wha'! Boris played on the 'On Top' I think, yunno. Q: Not many seems to talk about him now, I rarely see any name-dropping where his name shows up. A: No, I don't... I wonder why. I do know that wherever I go I talk about Boris, I think he is one hell of a bass player. And a bass player that no one talks about too, and I wish they would, is Jackie Jackson. Q: He was a steady musician there, frequently at Treasure Isle. A: He play all of the Treasure Isle stuff.

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Article: Peter I (Please do not reproduce without permission)