Q: What was Drumbago like as you remember him?

A: Yeah, Drumbago was really... I tell you seh, about Drumbago, yunno, 'cause Drumbago used to live down in the downtown area, I know his wife. I t'ink I know that Drumbago used to ride a bicycle or whatever him used to have there. Him used to live by the water and everyt'ing, and him and a next man named Ribbs - I don't know if you noticed him, a saxophone man.

Q: No. 'Ribbs'?

A: Yeah, we just called him Ribbs but he was the one who used to do the ska tune wha' yu hear, we're just having him another name. But him and Drumbago was kinda like since far friends, yunno, and him and Drumbago kinda control the session whe I told you, you see Ribbs there. I can't really remember... But fe really tell you - a very good-natured man though, I tell you. Drumbago, very good-natured type of man.

Q: Drumbago died in '69 - what happened to him, if you recall - an accident? I know very little.

A: Oh yeah, I can't really say now what go down with Drumbago. Because I really hear them man deh pass away, and I can't say if I heard what happened to him, yunno. I was probably touring or whatever, but I heard about it. Some of them great musicians from that time pass and you hear nutten 'bout them.

Q: What about Don Drummond?

A: Oh yeah, I work with Don I think about one or two times.

Q: What do you remember about him?

A: Ah, Don Drummond? Well, all I can say about that man, yunno, is one of the world's greatest trombonists I ever really come across, it's that is the truth, y'know what I mean. I work with Don and sing a song with Don, 'What A Man Doeth'. Don was on that song for me and I think him played on a couple more songs for me, y'know. But that one, 'What A Man Doeth', that was Don Drummonds playing that trombone in it. And I met him when I was down at Duke Reid there, doing a 'Carry Go Bring Come' tune and all that.

Q: Justin Hinds, superb tune.

A: Yeah, an' t'ing like that. Just hum a tune behind him and if him feel that he plays a riff. You know, him is a man that is very tempered -temperamental, yunno, towards the music. Because he...

Q: The perfectionist?

A: Yeah, y'know what I mean. The way him really blow him tune and he look to a man like seh, if he don't like a tune him na go really find a good riff or blow a good solo inna it, I would say that, yunno. But he is a very temperamental type a player that. Beca' sometime he would find that he blow a riff or blow a solo and it sound like seh, well, then from a man think seh, well, then right now you a go hear a good solo from him - a bad solo that time. Them time when you look hear a bad solo, a broken solo you never hear. And then a next time you hear in a solo, him play a lickle phrase an' t'ing and chop it off. I think him can blow better than that, y'know. Yeah. Ca' sometime if yu really demand wha' him a blow, coming like what you say sound stupid, yunno. Him hold all, hold one - a hold one note, and hold it long. Just hold it like (imitates the trombone) but on a different kinda note though. Not from like whe you hear from whole heap a man. But, like I'm saying a very temperamental kind of man that. But one of the world's greatest trombonists that, man. Apart from him life, from him lifestyle like seh, bwoy, is a man whe go in a the crazy-house more time.

Q: Right, the Bellevue institution.

A: Oh yeah! 'Cause feel like him respond to you, or respond to him, is like you na really get no real response from him - you have to figure it out yourself (laughs)!

Q: How did you find Buster to work with?

A: Well, Buster was a kind of producer-type before you ever hear about Buster singin' on record, 'cause I don't know if you know Buster as a singer? Maybe you have heard his songs?

Q: Yes, 'Thirty Pieces of Silver', 'Judge Dread', and so on.

A: Yes. So I refer to him like a man who have an inspirational 'bout music too, more than tell you that he just sang those on record. Beca' he was a great Rhythm & Blues type a person who knows about foreign music. And he had a sound, y'know, he had a big sound system in those days. So, Buster and I go back a long way, because he used a lot of the artists, he knows most of the artists and the musicians too.

Q: What do you remember about the so called 'sound wars' and violence at the dances at this time, Buster got indeed his share of that?

A: Oh, well, to really tell you about the war, the physical war wha' gwaan in downtown Kingston area, after I make it in Jamaica with, like, all those songs, ska tune and all that, you see is like those songs create such a, bwoy, I wouldn't say a problem, but a changing in the music that people was wondering is what kinda strange mood of music, or what you'd call it... 'changes' of music. Because after a man find seh - when he found out that this music now begin to change like that, you have people who change the music, yunno, them start playing reggae music now, instead of doing the ska. Man change the music and start play reggae. They call the music reggae, by changes of the music who you would say had more instruments in the music. Instead of you have a vocalist that sing the music you'd have a group. Now, if you check the music them most of the times now, them don't have like a whole heap a musicians again, you would have now mostly riddim. So, all a that now from those times change chords, really some serious t'ing gwaan inside of the Jamaican music, yunno. But give thanks and praise to the people dem wha' really continue and keep it on. 'Cause you have nuff people come with some creative kinda music an' deejay this and that an' it's like them just do fe the part them haffe play inside a it. Ca' you have this deejay man and you have that deejay man, you have different kinda deejay man - and singers, and you have man who come and some a dem gone and leave it.

Q: Can you recall any of the deejays that Buster used?

A: Yeah, you have Cuttings (brother of Stranger Cole), you have Cuttings that used to sing and deejay fe Duke. And you have Lord Comic, Comic was King Edwards the Giant's deejay, and you have Hopeton - him named King Hopeton. That was another King Edwards number one deejay, him used to be number one deejay on King Edwards' set. Well, all Bells now, Count Bells, him used to manage him own set. You have all man like all Ickyman, like they called Ickyman wha' used to deejay Lord Koos, and then as you know King Stitch (Stitt) already. Well, King Sporty is a next deejay whe come on there and really happen on the scene. You had U Roy, U Roy whe used to do Dickie's Dynamic sound. Then you have Lord Comic, Sir Lord Comic the deejay, right, Lord Comic he was even the runner-up fe Ken Khouri, yunno. Lord Comic used to be out lookin' for talents at Federal studios. Then Comic would come and look for the artists, like he comes by me and said, "Get yourself together, man, for you have a recording". Like I'm saying, times and times go by when you might not hear of me but those days I was a fluent hit-making person. Most of the music that I made... the hit songs would be coming at Federal studios, like all them tunes like all 'Oil In My Lamp', when Byron Lee was there. Byron Lee I think was in Khouri studio. You have different, different musician in them times, like Baba Brooks - you ever hear about that trumpeter named Baba Brooks?

Q: Yes, the man behind 'Shank I Sheck'.

A: All right. So we gather round and then he get like a pick-up band and put together and Byron Lee was there an' t'ing like that. So the people you see there is musician like all Frank Anderson and all those guys.

Q: Do you know what became of people like Frank?

A: Oh, Frank he was a trumpeter, y'know. He was kinda versatile 'cause I think he was there in Byron Lee's band, but I don't know what really happened to Frank. And you know sometimes the members of the band, sometime they move to different locations and join different bands. I think he could be in Canada now, playing in different bands.

Q: What about a man like Charlie Organaire (Cameron)?

A: Oh yeah, Charlie Organaire was a very great organist, yunno, 'cause he played on many tracks with me, 'O Wee Baby Let Me Tell You How I Love You', he played on that one for me. And he played on 'Sammy Planted A Corn' too, 'Oil In My Lamp' and all those tunes. Because, Charlie one a the time become a very important figure when you need somebody fe really mek a tune sound like a ska tune, then you have to look for Charlie. Then you have 'Blues', you know that man who played the string bass? He play like a string bass that time. Then you have Lloyd Brevett, this tall, long dark-skinned man play the bass. Them people are the real cornerstones in the music. You gotta have patience and be assured on that faith, is the one who have a lot faith who can stay in this t'ing and stay in it regardless of what kind of opposition they get, y'know, can really give an account of what's happening and what's going on. Because for real, some a the times it's like seh, well, many people want to give up towards the kind of treatment they get from it. Sometimes financially, sometime reactions from musicians are from hard days, y'know, or from promoters, not knowing that artists have to be treated differently if you want to get the best out of them.

Q: What about duets? You did a lot with Roy Panton, as Monty & Roy?

A: Ah, oh yes! I do tunes with Roy too, yunno. Let me see what tune with Roy Panton - 'Sweetie Pie', one tune named 'Sweetie Pie' and I do some other songs with him. I think Roy Panton is in Canada now. And, from Millie Small (referring to Roy & Millie) too, 'cause she really make a break in the market for this music. I heard that she was in London now.

Q: How was competition in those days?

A: I wouldn't call Jamaican music directly a competitionwise, yunno, it's a recorded team, y'know what I mean. Because if an artist come on now, whe ya call it... in this era, right, and when you talk about certain artist in that era, you stay on the scene for about a year or two with the kinda songs them you make or this is a potential artist who can walk from one era to the other. This is a versatile artist who may change to a different style of songs, y'know, but it wasn't like a competition t'ing. Because I would say the competition t'ing is about the producer them, the producer and the people dem whe own the record, the people dem in record industry. Because, one time in the sound days I waan tell yu, yunno, if you use a artist and you go sing for a man and that man can put out your music, beca' him is a good artist, a producer wouldn't like you to leave his stable and go to a next producer, right, that would cause what you would say is a conflic' or whatever.

Q: Right, that sort of 'loyalty' was expected.

A: Yeah. The producer have to ask himself 'I wonder if I am treating this artist in the right and proper way?' So all those lickle t'ings now, some of the producer deh really handle the artist dem a way, y'know what I mean. But if you know feel seh you are a very good singer or can make a couple of good hit songs, and the producer might leave that artist alone, you shouldn't feel no way seh, well, then 'look now, if you can't support my stuff...', right. Or a producer would say: 'Bwoy, you're not in a position whe if you want me to keep on do music with you regardless how much I care'. Or a man say: 'You don't pay me so much you ought to', or 'You can't fight me for your needs', and all dem t'ing deh. That is where the music really caused the artist to get locked, seh 'I don't feel too right' - seh it just a gwaan like that, yunno, and some artists a think some way about some producer. No disrespect still, but talking about the t'ings that wha' man do fe him living, because when a man look around and you don't have another source of living, right, and dem a do music for a living and when him go get fe him money, him ask the man how well it go, is like him a go tek the record and bruk it in two. Or you and him a gwaan like you waan do him somet'ing, you and him have war, y'know what I mean. So all dem t'ing deh depend on how the producer treats the artist, if you'd call it a contest. You'd have to be recording for a day, for all a day an' do like two, three or five songs, yunno, and then you'd get a good lickle money. Whe I'm talking about good lickle money, that it would last for a while. But if you think fe just go on a session and just do one side a tune or two songs - first time though, you'd get a chance fe do two songs, you see. When you do those two songs you a charge him stage fee, not thinkin' about record sales or where it's gonna take it, or whatever. Then a contract sign and all those paper, it's like you are too involved in music, not business, so the artist would feel comfortable, if him do make a hit or not - 'cause is not all a them songs you make becomes a hit. Out of ten songs you might find one or two a dem sound good.

Q: True. You did 'Sammy Dead' for Byron Lee's Kentone label. Do you remember performing that song on stage with the Dragonaries, this was filmed in 1965 I think? On that film (titled 'This Is Ska' on video-release in 1989) you and Jimmy Cliff, Prince Buster, the Maytals, the Blues Busters and Stranger Cole share the stage, wherever it was. You recall this one?

A: Oh yes, I think that was at Sombrero that filmed, yunno - Club Sombrero, that was in Half Way Tree. They have that film show all over the world, because the purpose of that film now (or the JA-pronounced 'flim') they had something like a documentary going on. I was in Canada the other day and I was there when the documentary was shown. I was doing a show and they showed that documentary before the concert. But that was from back in the seventies I think.

Q: The sixties.

A: Yeah. It was from Sombrero Club, man.

Q: What do you feel about Byron Lee's contribution to Jamaican music, looking back now?

A: Everybody have a different style in the way they play the music or do the music. Really, as a matter of fact, I look on Byron Lee band - or on he himself - not being deep down a... what you'd call it, a Jamaican ska band. Because Byron Lee that I know from when I start, they're doing something that you'd call soca, a soca kind of band. That was the first, before I even sing with him, and he never did play it, he never really was playing no ska. When the first time that Lord Comic call me down to his studio and seh, well, he want me and Byron Lee a combine and do somet'ing, that was the first time I ever hear somebody was talkin' about Byron Lee do ska, him do the ska music that's going on in Jamaica, you see. And I made that song with him an' t'ing like that, and that encourage Byron Lee so anybody would a call Byron Lee say, well, 'Byron Lee a play ska music'. Beca' Byron Lee and I, we all a do New York as you know in 1964.

Q: Right, on the World's Music Fair.

A: Yeah, the Music Fair.

Q: I think it's even 'The New York World Fair', that was a first taste for the world of Jamaican music.

A: We all represent Jamaican music with ska music.

Q: How did that come about now, the selection of artists, and so on?

A: Well, I think people like Eddie Seaga and other people like the Jamaica Tourist Board, right, they was the people who sponsored that trip. And Jamaican music was really getting a hot spot in Jamaica, because the student start doing ska dance, they do ska. Byron Lee had a thing going that time because his was the number one band in Jamaica that time. You know, you had other bands like the Mighty Vikings, All Stars. Skatalites was there then, y'know, but the people around let Byron Lee have it. It was then chosen through, like, him have a lickle ska band, y'know what I mean. Versatility is really what counts in the music. A man cyaan just come an' just, like, 'you're a ska-man and yu can only play one type a ska music', y'know what I mean. It's a great band, yunno, but I really wouldn't call him a uptown guy, him was just inside the business and it was fe him time to get inna the ska music. Not saying that, representativewise, was the greatest one, ca' you really have other musician out deh whe really get more to speak or talk about the business, more than him.

Q: I guess it was a mixture of class, Rasta, prejudice, competition and the right connections that finally led them to pick Byron Lee of all people, and not the best of them all - the Skatalites, to represent the local music at this fair?

A: Well, like I'm saying a man make him own t'ing, choose what him want. Them don't get the reward, them don't get the recognition wha' them supposed to get. They stay within them own circle so people don't know where they are at, y'know. 'Cause Byron Lee was fully around... I don't know if he even had the studio then - Dynamic studio, down by Bell Road. Skatalites was just a lickle... well, I wouldn't just say 'lickle', yunno, them man deh is big - great man, but I mean the circles. Them t'ing deh is must to have.

Q: Any special anecdotes from the trip?

A: That was one of the greatest times that ever happen to Jamaica, yunno, to really see that Jamaica should a give a certain amount of people, including myself, to really come out of the type of environment whe really going on. 'Cause really, inna them times is like, I mean... well, I wouldn't go as far as politics, yunno. In those times Jamaica was kinda like in Independence time, and like I'm saying Jamaica never really had no type of music for themselves whe a person can hold on 'pon dance an' smile fe this music ya, like, 'this is what I create', y'know. A man a dance but him build boogie-woogie business an' a gwaan like them American. You know? Man seh well, 'Bwoy, look: this ya we haffe find somet'ing fe us own'. Ca' after we go whey and I go whey an' dem t'ing deh, an' after I make certain amount of songs like 'Humpty Dumpty', 'Money Can't Buy Life' an' all dem songs deh yunno, man did a talk, seh, they just think seh, well, then I would a come back again and make anedda big tune like 'Sammy Dead and Him Gone', 'Oil In My Lamp', yunno. So when Byron Lee get in contact with me fe really get that song, I wouldn't say I love the game, but is like is a search, we was trying to search fe somet'ing that Jamaica can call them own. You know, 'this is our music', and they put us to the World's Fair for real an' when we do find out and think seh, well, then man should a do whatever, them should really be done fe make the music grow. You know, this man a fight this man, this man a go get him English gal fe himself, is not a t'ing you was surrounded like them everybody was together to make the music work, yunno. Beca' you have certain set a man go deh, and him a deal fe him t'ing identical, it never really work out. But it never really crash, it never really 'cause the music fe really die. Ca' if you notice the Jamaican legendary and Jamaican songs still going on, you see. Some man just come inna it and leave it but it's still going on. Man tell you directly this man go fe promote ska music, right, but it's like, 'Look: this man go fe him tune! This man a promote different tune'. Ca' it's like this gwaan like it promote a next tune, right, and then these guys a go talk about music and a seh, "Oh, I love this music, man, I would love to get to hear it more proper". And man say, "This is my music, this is my music that I brought and create", y'know what I mean, and not pertaining to the musicians or the artists who do it. Then the artist would feel exploited in that way, but them cyaan stop it from gwaan, y'know.

Q: How did they respond to the music at this fair?

A: Oh, the people feel the music very good, yunno, beca' this wasn't no singin' contest or 'singin' t'ing', y'know, this was a demonstration. Like, I can remember I went in a club dancin' and showin' the people dem demonstration how the ska music go, stuff like that. A next man have his record holdin' up in his hand and talkin' to a next man, like him a showin' the man him record, yunno, and that record had nutten to be with the World's Fair, right. So the people dem whe a dance the music and respond to the music, it's like wha' kinda business is going on or the type a business people talkin' about where a man is showin' a man a record or a man talk about another man's record? I leave it at that and then when I went back to Jamaica, they had we snapped at the airport an' all of that. And they have all kinda t'ing fe talk about, because ska music went to being promote in New York. But this man was talkin' about he wasn't satisfied, because this man was playing his music, y'know what I mean, they thought it was a contest.

Q: There must've been a lot of animosity in the music community when you went and when returning, like 'why did this man go, why didn't they send this man instead?' It's always the case anyhow, under these kind of circumstances, isn't it?

A: Well, I wouldn't say they was talkin' about the artist 'why this man did go', beca' the reason why who really went, is because of the changes of the music. Because everybody wha' went there, yunno, I remember Lloyd Charmers, Buster was there, Miss World, and Byron Lee. And Neville Nasralla.

Q: Who?

A: Neville Nasralla. I don't know if you've heard of that man?

Q: No, never heard that name.

A: Nasralla. Yeah, he was there demonstrate the ska.