Q: So Jackie and Blackwell were pretty close friends? A: Well, so far, so far, so far they was. But as I say, Peter, you know, I'm coming from a far way, I'm coming from a far way and I'm still here. You know, I'm still here. But growing up in Jamaica was solid as a rock, because in them time you have to hear what your parents says, unless you're gonna get a smack of your ass! Q: (Chuckles) A: And some good smackin'! Q: Well I can imagine you in particular had a pretty strict upbringin', with a military father in the house. A: Of course! Of course. Q: You don't mess with a soldier in the house, right? A: Yeah! Yep, and even now, now when my mom reaches an age an' t'ing like that, her grandkids them around her and they've got to hear what she say, especially the younger ones. It was just that way, it was just that way. My lady, her parents was just the same, you understan'. The upbringin' of us kids in the early years is a lot different from now, it's war-time now. We never know nutten about war and yes, as little boys and girls an' t'ing like that, you want to fight or you smack someone or t'ing like that, they cry and go tell their parents or whatever t'ing like that, but it was no guns and boom and this and all them t'ings, y'know. It's war-time now for some, who gets out of it were lucky. Because, if you have ambition to do something good with your life, aren't you gonna do it, doesn't it? Q: Sure. A: Yeah, of course! You know, my dad always says to me there's three things in life you have and you cannot be conquered. He said, number one: strong constitution. Number two: positive thinking. And number three: determination. That's what he said, those three things. And you have the constitution to push on, you have the determination to move on further, and when you get the green light, you go. You go. And it's so sad to see how Jamaica become... not Jamaica itself, how the people has turned Jamaica, what they has turned Jamaica into in them time. People sit back, they have a little piece of land in Jamaica, they don't want to look after the land, they want other people come from abroad and look after it for them, cultivate it - leave it, they reap it, and you don't see nothing out of it, yeah? You see? So there you go. It's entirely different, different environments now. You talk to all a ten year old down in Jamaica, today, the first thing he's gonna tell you that him pop shots whatever way him want retaliate, you see. So it's a different growing up time, different growing time, Pete. Different, you know. And I'm glad the way that I was brought up, to be honest with you. Because I grow up with manners, because I had to have manners - even to my next door neigbours. Q: The respect for elders has deterioated in most places these days it seems. A: You think that you can... perhaps your next door neighbours, and those says good morning or good evening Mr or Mrs, they going tell your parents says: "Wait, that's great, your son a turn big man now, him pass me this...". Beca' my father don't spank, y'know, it's my mom do (laughs)! And she is going, says: "Did you see Mr Peters this morning, or Mrs Peters this mornin'?" And they just say good morning to them, and sometime you're going to school and your mind is not really thinkin' on those people, you're thinkin' on your school, you want to get to school because I love school, I loved school. And one of the reason why I loved school is to get out of the yard (laughs)! Q: What an ambition. A: (Laughs) Yeah! Because when you have school you have more playtime, innit? When at school you get more playtime, bwoy! Oh dear, oh dear, I'm tellin' you. But give thanks that I'm still alive, I'm still alive. And many is still there, but some just comes and went - not go, they just comes and went, y'know. My yard, they used to call it 'The Academy', because that's where all the big beefs them come into, like Ken Boothe, Delroy Wilson - when he was a tut. You had Higgs & Wilson, you've heard of those guys - you had Joe Higgs? Q: Yes, yes. A: Stranger Cole, Alton (Ellis). Alton was just living the next street from me, you could walk over fences and fences and reach each others' yard. Q: Simms & Robinson? A: Eh? Simms & Robinson? Well, they at least lived a different... they was living in a different area, but not in Trench Town. I think they was living in Vineyard Town, right. That's next to Allman Town, you see. Q: What about this record (playing 'Jezebel' off Heartbeat's 'Ska Bonanza' CD, a Studio One anthology)? A: Which one is this...? Oh, that's 'Jezebel'! But 'On The Beach' was the first I've done for Coxson. That was the first, 'On The Beach'. I've done a duo like 'Sinners Gonna Weep And Mourn', and then I do this 'Twist Baby', and I do 'Jezebel', I do 'Pretty Girl'. I've done a few for Coxson, man.

Q: What studio did Coxson use, because this is some years prior to building his own at Brentford Road - he used RJR's studio for this? A: It was recorded at... no, not RJR. It was recorded at - what's the name...? By Foreshore Road, what's the name now...? Oh gosh, we were talkin' about them a while ago too. Q: Federal. A: Eh? Federal, yeah. Because really, the first engineer they had was a man called Graeme Goodall. Q: Yes, the Australian engineer. A: He was the first. I met him a few years ago in Canada, because some people from the States, right, had put on a big thing in Toronto - you heard about that? Q: Yes I did. A: That was big, it was reeeally... it was really put together properly. It was promoted properly, the promotion was well, well together. It was promoted really, really good. Really real - everything was on, like that (snaps his fingers), you understan' what I mean. You see, this is why you see sometimes... people talk about the white man, alright, those people when they're gonna do things, they don't just sit back, they plan it out first. They go for a pencil and a paper and they draft it up. Areas, they goes into areas, right. It depends on how many artists they're gonna use and thing like that, they goes into area. They want to find a venue that can hold so much thousand people or whatever, right, and they brace themselves. And when it comes to the promoting, they promote it through the media, they promote it by the radio, whatever t'ing like that, and it works. It worked good, because Prince Buster was on it too. Q: Yes, the Skatalites as well. A: Skatalites, Stranger Cole, Derrick & Patsy, Derrick (Morgan) on his own, (Roy) Wilson - because Higgs wasn't around (passed away in 1999).

Lord Tanamo Combo @ Legends Of Ska, Toronto. (Photo: Porter Yax)

Q: Lord Tanamo. A: Lord Tanamo, Graeme Goodall - he plays with the band that was doing... You know, it was a smasher. It was down in - what you call this place here...? The Ocean, right, lay down the ocean by the ocean lake, by the ocean. It was a smasher. Ain't it true (asking his partner in the background)? It was a smasher, innit? Yeah man, because my lady was there, y'know. Yeah man, she enjoyed it very much, man. And the people that we was dealing with, they are so... you know? Q: Took proper care of everything, as it should be. A: They took care of (chuckles)... they make sure of that. They make sure of that, man! It's not like some of these men you see putting on lickle t'ing an' t'ing an' t'ing, and you cyaan... when you're waiting to get all your money and all them t'ings, you can't find them, right. But I wish they - some of these things that goes down, they would take some sightseeing from and do the business the proper way. Sometimes you are working for them and they wait until... Alright, you're gonna work seh this December, they're waiting until a week or two weeks before they start advertise and all those things. You have to give yourself at least a few months ahead! Q: Of course. A: You understan' what I mean. But me now, come back to Trench Town, y'know, Trench Town was a boss little place, man (chuckles). Because I used to go to Trench Town School, you see. There was a school, right, I used to go to a school called Chetola Park and then I go to Senior school. Then because of that school being so close to my home, where my mother could've kept an eye on me (laughs)! Q: (Laughs) A: Yes! She come, because you can hear when the first bell rang, you understan' what I mean, you can hear when it ring, and the second bell you know seh it will be over in school, you see. Q: Anyone else from the music scene who you were contemporary with at this school? A: Um, I can't... vaguely, vaguely, vaguely. Q: Jackie? A: No, no, no. Jackie never goes to that school. I don't - Jackie was a man, he wouldn't like school, him never stayed in school (laughs)! Q: Really? A: (Laughs) But vaguely a few that I have mentioned, but they didn't come in the music business, really. But I think one of them really, yunno. If I'm not mistaken, I think Stranger Cole probably been to Trench Town School. Bob Marley never went to Trench Town School, 'cause Bob Marley was a youth them time, really. Bob Marley no really reach school age in my time, living in Trench Town.

Owen Gray

Q: You don't recall him from these days? A: Because I - no, no, no, Bob Marley was jus' a lickle boy, a little boy, y'know. His mom used to take off his trousers to keep him in the yard, but still she couldn't keep him (laughs)! Q: (Laughs) A: Ahh! But we had some fun times, y'know. Maxfield Avenue was one of the main gathering for weekends. Q: Maxfield Avenue, which is Whitfield Town. A: Maxfield Avenue, Lincoln Avenue, Roussell Road, Nelson Road, Victoria Road, what's the next name... the one that comes down... ? Tuari Crescent, that's where most of the dances used to kept. Q: Did you follow any specific sound system in those days? A: No, not really. It's only like Duke Reid and Coxson, those were the two main man in Jamaica, as sound system. Those were the two bad boys, Duke Reid and Coxson, you understand. Those were the two, those were the two main ones. You used to have one... what's the name of him...? He used to play on Maxfield Avenue too... oh gosh! Q: Who would you pick as the better of these two? A: Studio One, boss. Studio One, Coxson. Q: Duke was the more 'uncomfortable' of them, the arrogant personified? A: No, it's not a matter of arrogant, it's not a matter of... Well, I know Duke Reid, him was a really tempered man, that's why I kept out, kept out of Duke Reid (laughs)! But believe you me, I would always be for, I would always choose Studio One. Q: Because of...? A: You get more coming out of Studio One than Duke Reid, you get more coming out of Studio One than Duke. Q: You felt less pressure and could develop more within the Studio One stable? A: Yes! I think that I could have probably - if I was still living in Jamaica in times gone by, even though he's no longer here, but in them time if I was still living in Jamaica, but I went to live in the States and I met him again, and we do record in the States. And it was no different from the sound in the States in that studio, he had gotten the same sound. That's the thing about him. And they record at Studio One in Jamaica. Before I left this a couple of years ago, right, the studio was improving back because new machinery, I think he had bring in a board from abroad, 'cause he had some fantastic instruments from abroad, you understan'. But I would rather to be at Studio One, I would rather to be at Studio One any day.

Don Drummond with The Skatalites

Q: Who was the man in charge at that early stage, because some people like Jackie Mittoo and Leroy Sibbles came long after you. Was it Roland taking care of things there, or McCook? A: Well, you see, Jackie Mittoo, Roland Alphonso, Lloyd Knibbs, (Lloyd) Brevett, Don Drummond, (Raymond) Harper - which is a trumpeter, and what's the other one name again...? But the old band, the band, myself, Coxson and the Skatalites is just like a family thing, like. Yeah, it was like a family. It was like a family, because Coxson used to keep the best shows in Jamaica, y'know, especially on Christmas. It doesn't matter how many shows in Jamaica, and people will go. He always kept his own at the Ward Theatre. Q: Like a big package, the sort of 'Studio One Showcase' you would expect? A: It doesn't matter if it's Studio One or Studio Two or Studio Three, and don't care how much shows the people them go for the morning, that particular show they're coming to, because that's where the last show is of the day. And it's coming down. Because in the Christmas time I used to do like seh three shows. To make a little bit more money, yeah, I used to open the first half. We used to have Bim & Bam. Q: The comedians. A: Good. But they used to keep the shows them too. And they will have in their shows at the Regal, and I will open the first half of that show, and then I went to the Carib Theatre - just down the road from there, and go and close the first half over there. You're getting me? Q: Yep. A: And then I am the last artist down at the Ward Theatre. When these shows almost finished, right, when the uptown shows them almost finished, the downtown shows don't start yet. Because that is going on way down in the evening, you see. And those shows down there, man, at the Ward Theatre... I'm telling you (chuckles). Ward Theatre, the Ward Theatre, man. That cinema is a centerpiece for Kingston, y'know. Q: What could the capacity have been there? A: In the cinema I think it's around... Q: Four or five hundred? A: Six hundred people, but you used to have more! You have seated, standing, you have people who comes there, you have balcony - there's balcony in there, right. But when you go these places really... you don't want to sit down, people who wants to sit down sit down. But you want to go around and see your friends them and buy them a little drink or whatever and have a little talk and a laugh and who's doing their thing, doing their thing differently. So you're not gonna sit down, sit down - you're gonna move around until... even though when the show starts, you know some hotness gonna come now, heh! Because there's dancers, singers, comedians, blah blah, what it is - whatever, y'know. But I enjoyed those years, I tell you. I enjoyed those years and I'm still enjoying the years, and I hope years to come I still can be enjoying.

Q: Let's talk about the debut album now, your first and for the music a real first, historically, this is something no one had achieved up to that point in Jamaican music. A: Yeah, it's the first. It's the first Jamaican album that had been done, it's called 'Owen Gray Sings'. Q: Right, who worked on this album? A: Um, I know... Q: It saw release back in 1960 or '61 I should add. A: Yeah, yeah. I know the bass, the bass guy was a guy from camp, from Up Park Camp - he was in the army, called Lloyd Mason. You have Lloyd Mason, you have Ernest Ranglin, you have Roland Alphonso, and you have a next saxophone player that plays on it, which... I can't even remember his name. The drummer was... Q: Wasn't it members from Clue J & The Blues Blasters? A: Clue J, yeah! Was Clue J (coughs), the keyboard was Herman Sang. Q: Right, 'Hersang'. A: Herman, Herman Sang. He's from a group called The Downbeat that Count Prince Miller used to work with. You've heard of Count Prince Miller? Q: Not too familiar with him, no. Heard the name though. A: He sings 'Mule Train' (sings): 'Mule traaaain...' - and his mouth big (laughs)! And he says "booooohhhh" like a horse (laughs)! Yeah, well, that's the group he used to... so the keyboard player was a guy called Herman Sang, right.

Q: This was recorded at Federal? A: No, it was recorded at RJR studios, it was recorded in RJR, that's where it was recorded. Q: And Chris Blackwell produced this album? A: Yeah. Blackwell was the producer, yes. Q: Was it only a UK release? A: No, it came out in Jamaica. It came out in Jamaica, but as I said before I didn't know that my records them was coming to England them times. But because when I came, after a while I saw this guy in Brixton, he has a hairdresser place and he has a business there, and he said he bought the record here, which he had asked me to sign, you understan' what I mean. Another guy that is on the radio in Bristol brought one to a show that I was doing in Bristol, and asked me to sign it too. Yeah. Q: Was a very limited pressing at the time, rare stuff indeed. A: Yeah, yeah! Believe you me, I would like to get my hands on it (laughs)! Not joking, I'm not joking! I am not joking, I would like to really get me hands, I would really, really like to get me hands on that album there, to be honest. Q: Well, it's a legendary collectors item these days, so don't hold your breath... A: I know, I know. I don't know if Chris Blackwell gave it to anybody, I don't know if he leased it to anybody or whatever to anybody, but I've never seen it in this country again. I haven't seen it on CD's. Q: I truly hope it will come out on CD one of these days. Perhaps a Japanese label will put it out, crossing fingers. A: You know. I don't know if he is waiting on me to pass on or anything before he start doing the (chuckles)... You see, I even went to New Orleans and made an album, and up to now that album Chris Blackwell never put it out - that album!

Q: Then some time after the album was done, 'Owen Gray Sings', you went over to England. A: Yes. But during certain time an' t'ing like that, y'know, I circle Chris and rey rey... because you see how I see it in them times, Chris was looking like an alley way, right. Because Chris pay Jackie's fare to come to England, so I says 'Then why couldn't he keep on doing the same thing for me? Why didn't he send for me and Jackie at the same time? Why didn't he let me and Jackie come up from Jamaica at the same time?' He sent us to University, we record on the same night, we're supposed to be an artist for R&B Records, why couldn't he let me and Jackie Edwards comes up from Jamaica at the same time? Why he have to wait and wait and wait and wait and wait, yeah, and let somebody else beat him to it? You understan'? That's what happens, it's wha' happen, y'know. Q: How did you find England when you arrived there? That was 196-...? A: 1962. Well, when I got here, it was strange to me it was still, you've gotta fit in somewhere, don't you? It was looking strange to me to be in a foreign country. It was cold... Q: You got homesick from early on? A: No, I wasn't homesick, yunno. Because, you see, if I was coming here, haven't got anyone here or from my family, probably I would get a little bit homesick. But because my brother was here, and my brother is still here... well, at the moment now he's in Jamaica, right, but he's coming very soon. So, I never got homesick, because all I wanted was to get away and try and build on something. Build on something, build on my talent. Build up more, get more education, y'know, learning to speak properly conversationalwise and also my words, so when I sing people can hear what I'm singin'. It's not like some singers, they're singin' and you cannot understand, you can't hear them coming up with the words, you don't hear, they just 'cut' the words and sing like that, what you'd call 'pronounciation'. That's what it's all about. Q: Right, the phrasing and all that. A: You see, pronounciation. And it gives me great, great, great pleasure to come, that I could get those little bit of tips, y'know, get those little bit of tips from here, there and wherever. Q: What was some of the first recordings you worked on after arriving there? You did more stuff with Blackwell, or was it Shallit you hooked up with? A: Yeah, well, before I did... Shallit.

Q: All right, Shallit at Blue Beat Records, Melodisc. A: With Shallit because... ah (chuckles). I met up with Laurel Aitken, and we did a couple of songs together, one called 'Stockwell To Waterloo'. Q: (Chuckles) A: Yes (laughs)! And 'Have Mercy Mr Percy (Mr Percy Have Mercy On Me)', that was me and Laurel Aitken. Those two songs that we did for Shallit, it was great, y'know, it was great. Q: We're talking R&B now, not ska? A: Ah! Yeah, all R&B, Rhythm & Blues, man. (Sings) 'Have mercy Mr Percy, Mr Percy have mercy on me...'. Q: What was the scene like for Jamaican music at this point in London? You had the Flamingo club, Marquee? A: Yeah, you had the Flamingo. Q: The Four Aces, or was that later? A: No, Four Aces was later on. Because, funny enough, my first stage show I did in England was at the Stratford Town Hall, East London. Q: I know you did some work with a band called The Big Four, was this later on? A: That's later on, yes. That's later on, that is around like '65 when I went to Paris.

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Article: Peter I (Please do not reproduce without permission)