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Q: At the time you had signed like a three year deal with Island for a couple of albums, like one album a year?
A: The thing about it, I'm not under contract to Island since 1977 (it expired early in 1976 according to reports at the time, after it was signed in '72). Bob Marley didn't sign with Island till 1972, y'know. I re-signed with Island in 1972 in July on my birthday, and Bob Marley never sign until September. And Chris Blackwell always say to me I must locks me hair, because he can make me - and I said I would never locks me hair, 'cause I don't want to be a locksman. Because that's ought to be the way, y'know, so I just don't see the reason that you want me to change my appearance, right. If you gonna do the business for me, do it as it is. Q: Sure. A: He never tell Jimmy, he never told Jimmy Cliff to locks, Jimmy Cliff never feel like locksing. But Jimmy Cliff is no real Rastaman. Jimmy is no real Rastaman, y'know. Ohhh, man! Rasta is from within - I am a Rasta, but I eat any meat you want to give me. I eat it, because it's in your feelings of what you have inside for other people. You cannot fight down a person for what they are, if you say you a Rasta, that's your business. But I know my Rasta-ism is within, it's like Christianity - it's within me. I will go to the House of Congregation to hear other people's views, the parson, the preacher, the whatever, and other people want to say something about it. But it's inside here. You see people take up a bible everyday and it says 'Where I go today Lord, I go to church', and they don't know they're taking the church to the House of Congregation. That is my philosophy, my belief, belief within. Q: 'Inborn concept'. A: Inborn concept, thanks! Right inside there, the contact, y'know. Q: So in late '74 or so you told Island to break the contract because they didn't take you anywhere, so you could do something because nothing happened at that stage. A: Well, nothing was... Q: You sat and waited after New Orleans for something concrete to come out of this, but it didn't. A: Yeah, but I still was with them for a while, still with them. But there was nothing happening, because I would not locks. I would not - if I had wanted to locks I could locks without Chris Blackwell tell me, because I used to have 'soul hair'. That's how I used to keep me hair, in 'soul', like a 'soul man', because lickle... Q: 'Afro'. A: Afro, Little Richard I used to do his hairstyle for a while too, and the 'Fro. But locks, that wasn't me at all, at all, at all. It's like you take a horse to water but if him don't want to drink you cannot make him drink it, innit (laughs)? Q: Right. A: And if you keep messin' around, messin' around, and he'll kick you (laughs)! |
 Owen Gray - London, 2002 (Photo: Lee Francis) |
 Owen Gray - London, 2002 (Photo: Lee Francis) |
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Q: Exactly. So you told Blackwell to break the contract when they didn't show any interest in promoting this project for you, that's what happened?
A: No, I told him, I say to Chris, "I ain't gonna locks". I say, "No Chris, for all the years that I've been workin' with you from Jamaica, why when I in Jamaica, why you never tell me to locks? Why as soon as I come to England and you want me to locks?" And I told my mom 'bout it, and my mom said don't do it. I'm not gonna break my prestige because of a few dollars more. Whe you see what happened? Is like him forcin' Bob Marley to do it. Q: Not to locks... A: No, he forcin' Bob Marley to locks - Bob Marley never locks in Jamaica, when I know Bob Marley. Bob Marley married when he was 17, 17 going 18. Bob Marley wasn't locksed. Bob Marley was a lickle loose kid, lookin'... him never locks! You see, when Bob Marley really sign up with Island, then Bob Marley start locks, 'cause the same trend them go down on Bob Marley with. Q: Mmm. A: Of course. And you see what 'appened now, Bob Marley, bwoy (kisses teeth). Q: Then you went down to JA to cool out for a while. A: I wouldn't - because, you see, I'm such a straight-forward man, upfront in - if you come with anything I'll tell you what I think about it. And because I didn't like the situation of what was going down, and I hear Chris Blackwell say something to all them guys... Because he used to - I don't know if he sold the place now, he used to have a studio in Basing Stoke... eh? Q: Basing Street? A: He used to have - no, not Basing Street, he used to have a studio in Basing Stoke, like when you're going to Reading. A 16-track, that's where Bob Marley make his first album in this country, the 'Catch A Fire'. It wasn't Jamaica, because I used to go out there by the studio, I used to go there where they make 'Catch A Fire'. So you know, he always say to them sez, "Not one of you bring a seed of ganja come, I will provide". But is not only that he was providing, not only the herbs he was providing, other things. Because, to my eyesight, I don't want to really - I don't want to say these things over... you know, in case of, y'know what I mean? Q: Naturally. A: But what the eyes has seen, my heart did leap. And what the eyes don't see, heart don't leap. I tell you somet'ing, my heart beat fast when I see what was going down. And the same thing, like Dennis Brown, the same... oh boy, oh boy, oh boy (kisses teeth). Aaaahhhh, boy! Believe you me, I ask the Father to hold me up, annoint my head, heal my bones and my body, keep me safe and hold back the conflict from within, don't let them destroy your world. Hold back - because I wrote that song, yunno, I wrote a song called 'Hold Back the Hands of the Wicked, Father, Don't Let Them Destroy Your World'. Yeah man, bad song, man. I don't record it yet, yunno. |
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Q: But you went down to Jamaica and hooked up with Bunny Lee, but the 'Forward On The Scene' album wasn't produced only by Bunny, it was in conjunction with you, between you both?
A: No, the bulk of it, y'know, the ideas - the ideas, yeah? The ideas is my ideas of, y'know, the writing of the songs and whatever, whatever, most of the... yeah, 88 percent of the songs them on it is original songs, y'understan'. 88 percent of the 'Forward On The Scene' album, y'know. But I have to give Bunny praise, because you see Bunny Lee - Bunny Lee knows certain artists' voice and how to drop the riddims them for the artists. That's a good t'ing about Bunny Lee, one of the good things about Bunny Lee that I know. Q: Still he has quite a reputation, perhaps 'labba' talk. How come so many look down on him, but I guess just as many hail him up? A: Well listen, Jamaica is Jamaica, right, and when you are coming from out of poverty, yeah? When you are coming from out of poverty, and reach a stage whe you start earning now and whatever, people will say anything! So you've gotta try and what, control that. So, Bunny Lee is a PNP, him have him friends them around him an' t'ings like that an' look after certain guys an' him family and whatever, to keep the fire burning. To keep the fire burning, y'know. Ninjaman is the same thing, this other one is the same thing, everybody have them own circulation of people 'round them. Everyone has got the circulation of people there around them. It's like how they used to talk about the late Sir Coxson, everybody has their own views about anybody else. Q: What is the most 'fair' one on Bunny? A: Fair about Bunny Lee? The only thing about Bunny Lee that I think, he went and put Linval Thompson - an artist up until this day I have never met, he went and put Linval Thompson name on 'Natty Bongo'. |
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Q: Oh, the JA pressing of 'Bongo Natty'? Never heard about that.
A: And I wrote 'Natty Bongo' from here in this country, it's here I wrote 'Natty Bongo' from. Johnny Clarke first record 'Move Out Of Babylon', but is I who wrote it out by King Tubbys gate for Johnny Clarke. I wrote that song there for Johnny Clarke right outside under the (inaudible) tree outside the late King Tubby's gate. For Johnny Clarke, 'Move Out Of Babylon (And Leave All The Wicked Man)', 'move up, move up'. Q: So much Rasta lyrics from that period. A: Of course, it was a feel that was going down. Well, let me say, I've got Rasta friends, I've got friends who say they are and... you know? Q: A reflection of the times. A: Just a reflection of it. So it gives me, a whe you call it, inspiration to see how these people get around an' t'ing like that. It just comes to... Q: Naturally, yes. A: It just comes naturally. Q: How did you feel about the grassroots Aggrovators sound at the time? Maybe my impression is a bit... whatever, but you've always had an 'intense' vocal style, but when I hear you sing on top of these Aggrovators rhythms, I hear more of an 'attack' or 'bite' or 'sting' in your voice. A: Yeah! Positive. Q: It almost sounds like you wanted some kind of revenge from those 'wasted' years with Island, is that how you felt when doing some of those songs? Singin' your heart out. A: It's not a matter of 'revenge', it's what was coming to me. Q: Yes, but some kind of relief anyhow. A: You know, it's relief, yeah, it gives me relief. I don't have to - I relax more. |
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Q: That was with Bushay I think, 'Fire And Bullets', on Trojan.
A: 'Fire And Bullets'. Q: Right, but we spoke about a totally different album before, the 'Reggae With Soul' from '69. A: 'Reggae With Soul'. Q: Also done with Bushay then, I thought that was self-produced? So you had two with Bushay? A: Yeah. Because me and Bushay going do time now (chuckles). Yeah, we've been going for time, going for time now. But I kind of give him a lickle kind of a rest now, because t'ings not workin' out the way it should, t'ings not workin' the way it should have. A just that, I just let sleeping dogs lie. Q: That's what they say, right (chuckles). A: Yeah man, I just let sleeping dogs lie, I just carry on with what I'm doing, y'know, I just carry on. Q: From how early on did you get a 'schooling' of how the music business works, all aspects, getting the rights to songs and especially publishing? A: Well, it's after I start doing some serious travelling. When I start doing some serious travellin' I start finding... going into record shops and seeing how it is, y'know, all I had was to take a step, take it further. 'Cause mind you, Jamaica them times didn't have no publishing, no publishing society in Jamaica. Q: Right, that came late. A: You know, that came late in Jamaica, they just had... When I came here I didn't get to the publishing straight away an' t'ing like that, I was just continuing to do music. And things just start when I get around and get information, for me to earn something from is get them down. Yeah, for me to earn something is to get them down. And that's just what I did. Q: You had a label in Jamaica called 'Sun Plum' too, didn't you? A: Eh? Q: Your own label, Sun Plum. A: Well, who is that? |
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Q: Your own label, I think you had 'The Children A Cry' on it for example.
A: OK, that's my thing. Well, it's me and Clem anyway, Clem Bushay. Yeah, yeah, but it's my - I'm the upfront guy. And it does alright, and funny enough, yunno, I was going through some things I had been looking for and I said I want to do a compilation, a double CD. That's what I'm thinkin' of, y'know. Q: There's so much... A: To be done? Q: Yes! So much uncollected stuff from that great mid seventies period that needs to come out again, lots of stuff to be cleaned up and released properly. Those singles are for the most part way too scarce to find now, so they need to reach out in a different format. A: Well, well, the thing about it, I've got a lot of it, lots of it - 'vintage' you call them, because you cannot get them in record shops anymore. Q: True. So how did this double CD project the other year for Trojan come about, to do that compilation? A: No, because my friend went down there, my friend went down there with the album. So they heard it, so they wanted was to release it. Q: But I was surprised... A: But the thing about it, that we owed - because I still got it, I still got my master, because Saga-Trojan is no more around. |
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Q: Saga, you mean Marcel Rodd, the man who bought Trojan after Gophtal went down with it?
A: You know, Marcel Rodd died, yunno. Q: When? A: Yeah man, Marcel Rodd died some years now. Q: Right, he was pretty old even then, the mid seventies. A: Yeah man, Marcel Rodd died some... years now, died some years now. Oohhh dear, oh dear, that lickle old man was a problem too! Q: (Laughs) A: (Laughs) He was a proooblem! Marcel Rodd, he was a problem, bwoy. I told him that, yunno. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. Q: For some reason you've been overshadowed from a historical perspective, overlooked, underrated, all that fits your description. A: A lot of people say that. Q: It's difficult to understand, considering your catalogue of great recordings and the ability you have. A: Because I am not prepared to do what they want me to do. I am not prepared - I remember years from this, y'know, kinda want to get on and I wasn't in it. I am not prepared to do certain things that people wanted me to do. I will not do it, I am not from that stage. I am me, original, upfront - whatever I say, I say it with meaning, whatever I do, I do it with meaning. When I go to studios I say I sing with heart and soul, I just don't go in there and blah blah blah, y'understan', I do it because it's me. When it comes out to the public, I wanted to be accepted by the public - me, nobody else. That's what's it's all about. And I'm glad I've been me, and I will be me until when Father, y'know, knock on the door. I've been me, I don't want to be nobody else, nobody else except me. I say it's my name and nature, it's my name and nature. I will never change my name. I was workin' with State Records once, because my middle name is Owen George Anthony Gray, right, and to that day it has been 'Owen Gray' (often misspelled as 'Grey'). I said that's what people been knowing me as, Owen Gray. They was using George Anthony... At the time when you had these two, these two was singin' on a rhythm, Mac & Kate Kissoon, right, and it never work out. Because it was a lot of mix up, mix up, I won't go into that part of it now, because it was a lot of mix up with the record and how much money people collect, people a get upfront money and try them things, y'know, I never want to be... And then they go down to the office behind my back and they collecting this and tellin' the people them that and brrrhhh - and I'm not gettin' nothing out, not gettin' nothing out what I'm supposed to get. I was not gettin' what I was supposed to get, they all was collecting it behind my back. I do a three hour photo session with these people, y'know, because they was promoting the record. But not knowing that the other people them that was supposed to be with me to guide, they was the same one that stretchin' their hands out. And the whole system is just blowin' apart, them mess up the whole of it. But other than that, I'm glad I'm still here, I really am. |
 Owen Gray (Photo courtesy www.urbanimage.tv) |
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Q: How would you summarize your career so far, how do you look back on it?
A: Oh, my career? I'm happy with it, I'm happy with my career. Because, from coming so near and reach so far, I got to be happy with it. It could be better, but I'm still happy. Q: That's good to hear. A: Of course, I'm tellin' you. Q: So what we can come to expect from you in the future is to compile a lot of music from the sixties and the seventies era that hasn't been collected yet, that's what you're working on? A: Yeah, compiling. 'Cause I've got the stuff, I've got it. Q: Things that should - or must - come out, are things like the 'Fire And Bullets' and 'Forward On The Scene' albums. Long overdue. A: Mmm. Yes, that should come out. True. |
| And if they do, then we have a feast of high class performances of a singer at the peak of his career to look forward to, the mid seventies being arguably his strongest period of songwriting and recordings up until this day. So it was a relief and such a joy to finally see much of his best output available again when Trojan released the 'Shook, Shimmy & Shake' double-CD anthology in 2004, to my knowledge the most comprehensive Owen Gray compilation to date, but it's still not enough. 'Take Away Everything' is one of many fine examples that needs to come out again, if possible. Carl Gayle (of Black Music magazine, a leading R&B, jazz and reggae publication during the 1970's) felt Owen had a chip on his shoulder at the time because of several 'business-attacking' songs such as 'Blazing Fire' and 'Take Away Everything', but regardless of its content, internal affairs or whatever, they still make for some enjoyable listening thirty years after the event, and that goes for the majority of Gray's recordings during that period. He had a good thing going, no wonder he received such favorable reviews at the time; you have this very fact and proof present on the Trojan CD. So arguably he hit his creative peak at this time, which makes it harder to take that so little of this material is available today. It is difficult to understand why it has been held back for so long, as the music he recorded with Bushay, Bunny Lee, Alton Ellis as well as productions in his own signature shines and sparks on 'Shook, Shimmy & Shake', but it is hopefully just a tip of the iceberg of things to come. |
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There's lots of Gray goodies out there, buried in long unavailable vinyl singles and a handful of albums. Who will make a proper reissue of 'Forward On The Scene' for example? Who will put out 'None of Jah Jah Children Shall Ever Suffer' in its entirety? Let me know the label who will make a tasteful re-release of the 'Turning Point'/'Dreams of Owen Gray' LP, and soon? It's about time. And lets not forget the sixties, there is enough to gather from that decade as well. A nice 12" of material cut in 1967 came out a couple of years ago with Owen singing ballads and rock steady as only he could, and 'Stay By Me Each Day' (JRS) is a worthwhile investment to say the least. At the end of the seventies and the following two decades Owen went into the 'big peoples' market, recording primarily for the older West Indian crowd. This is perhaps his most anonymous period with little in terms of musical excitement, but as you'd expect the albums he did are still, for the most part, fine examples of his vocal artistry.
7" single information courtesy Roots Knotty Roots. Check out Owen Gray at Roots Rockers Promotions
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