Q: OK, so you are actually behind that one, that's interesting. A: Yeah, I wrote a lot of song there in the studio. Because most of the singers dem, when they are young an' come to the studio, they don't know how to write a song. Because probably they might have the chorus but they did not have any verses. And so, sometimes it's Morris do it too. Morris write a lot of songs, because sometime a singer might be coming there an' he have a nice chorus but I mean he did not have any verses for it, and we have to write verses into it to make it work. When Harry come in he's well delighted and well happy about it, but he don't know nutten about it. And then when the song publish, all you see is Harry Johnson wrote it, y'know. That's how it is (chuckles), Harry Johnson wrote it, yeah. Q: That song was a big hit for her, early eighties sometime. A: It came out in 1982. Yeah. Q: That's too bad, you didn't get a dime for it then? A: I didn't get a dime, I didn't get one dime. Not one dime! Yes, big hit too, didn't get one dime.

Sheila Hylton (Photo: Serial P/www.dubwise-factory.com)

Q: Wonder how much Sheila Hylton got from that... A: Well, I don't know what Sheila got, yunno, beca' Sheila was Harry girlfriend. Q: Oh. A: (Laughs) Yeah! Q: What became of her? A: Well, she and Harry break up and then she realised what Harry was doing with her music, and I don't know what she was getting from it. I know that she and Harry broke up an' she didn't want to deal with music again, so I believe she live some place in New York. She don't deal with music anymore, 'cause she kinda get downhearted for the experience (ex model/air hostess Hylton actually made a comeback on record some months after this interview took place). Q: It's a lot tougher, perhaps, to be upcoming female in the business and maintaining your integrity straight through. A: In the movie business, music business and fashion business. You know, it's like you have to go an' do certain things to have any - to be successful and at the same time, out of a hundred is only probably five percent successful, yunno. It's very hard. Yeah. There's Joy White, Judy Mowatt, Rita Marley, who again...? Donna (Diana) King, Althea & Donna that do 'Uptown Top Ranking'. But I mean, those girls didn't get anything either, yunno. The most successful person you could say, probably is the most successful female artist from Jamaica, is probably Mille Small (chuckles). Q: But that was about it, almost. A: But she make a lot of money. Yeah. Because 'My Boy Lollipop' sell twelve million copy, and then the album sell like five million copy. That is how Millie Small build Island. And then Chris start to get into rock music, y'know, Traffic and those people, an' things like that, Robert Palmer, Joe Cocker. That's how it really goes there.

Q: Back to the debut album now. 'Rain & Fire' was released in the UK on the Warrior label - do you know about the foreign releases? A: I don't know about those label. Yes. Is Harry J's reeling and dealing those. All I know is I get some of my music from him, because after I found out what was going on I get to have an injunction on my music. Because, after Harry J and Island break up, neither Island nor Harry J couldn't put out any more of my music. Because if Harry J put out the music is back-door deals, like how you told me about Warrior label, I don't know about that. But, I mean, I secure like 32 tracks of my music between Island Records and Harry J. Yeah. And then there's a guy in England they call Lloyd Coxsone... Q: Yes, the 'Good Old Days' and 'Natty Dread Surprise' tracks came out on his Tribesman label, right? A: Yes, all those music I don't get pay for! (Laughs) Is years I look into getting contact with Lloyd Coxsone, and I cyaan get in contact with him. Last time we were searching the internet, when we were checkin' it, there's so many internet record shops that have my music, y'know, Italy, France, checkin' out everyt'ing, and then when we contact those people, one of them contact us back. The rest of them people don't contact us. Then I realised that it's gonna take a long ride to deal with this. Q: But all the time when you recorded the first album for Harry J, you were still based in England? This was a connection between Lloyd Coxsone and Harry J basically, that those songs came out on Tribesman at the time. But you obviously knew about what happened to the releases on his label, didn't you? A: OK, I can tell you what happened: You see 'Natty Dread Surprise'? I did that song for Lloyd Coxsone, and then after I did that song up to this day I don't see Lloyd Coxsone in my two eyes again, from that day I don't see Lloyd Coxsone. 'Good Old Days', Harry J sold a track of it to Lloyd Coxsone. Yeah. And then when I went to Jamaica to ask Harry J about it, he say he didn't get any money from Lloyd Coxsone and he's looking for Lloyd Coxsone too. ,br> Q: Isn't that often the story? A: Always the story. Yeah (chuckles). And then after that I get a injunction that Harry could not put out no more of my music, if he do it then it's back-door business he's dealing with. But on an international level he cannot come out and put out any of my music no more. Because when you go to Chris Blackwell he tell you one story, and when you go to Harry J, he told you another story. (Laughs) It was just runnin' around... And then after that, after I leave Harry J then I sign up with a company, a management company in France, called Jah Live.

Q: Before we go into that, there was a couple of singles. I don't know if you were aware of them, like 'Let The People Go' and 'Jah Jah Same Love'. A: 'Let The People Go' and 'Jah Jah Same Love'...? Q: And 'Can't Stop Rastaman Now', which album was that? It wasn't included on 'Rain & Fire', was it? A: No, no. 'Can't Stop Rastaman Now', it was supposed to be on an album named 'Reflections'. Q: So what became of that album? A: That album never came out, but they took that one single from that album. Q: Right, you mentioned that before. So he's locking away an album from that period. It should come out one of these days. A: Yeah, that's what I tell you, I get some tracks from him. And he still have some tracks, but he cannot put out those tracks. Because there's that injunction, we did that so he cannot put them out. Q: When was that album recorded, to be more exact? A: 'Reflections' album was recorded 1979. That was the follow-up album to 'Rain & Fire' (chuckles). Q: He didn't put out the LP when the single didn't sell as well as it was hoped to do, or what went on? A: I just don't know the - there was a big business triangle, quarrelling what's going on back and forth between Harry J and Island Records. Q: What a shame, I mean that this came in-between for you. A: Yes, that's the reason, because those - my first three album I did was for Island Record through Harry J, because I believe Island gave him certain amount of money to produce three album with me, three album with the Heptones, three album with the Cables (chuckles)... Q: And Carl Dawkins, he was working with him at this time as well. A: And Carl Dawkins and Marcia Griffiths, yeah. And three album with Sheila Hylton too (laughs)!

Ras Midas

Ras Midas

Q: (Laughs) Yeah. It's a pity that this album got lost in the whole mess of shady business deals and all that, there was no doubt a lot of hard work that went into the making of that album. A: Well, yeah, of course it's hard work beca', you know, when you're very young and energetic and you want to get your message out and your music out, and as a producer he's trying to squeeze out the best from you, did the same t'ing with Zap Pow too. Yes, all Zap Pow - you remember that band, Zap Pow? Q: Yea, they did an album for Island through Harry J at this time, can't remember the title though. A: Yeah! Yes, because all of us - Bob Marley, I - all of us, Island was givin' money to produce all of us, and the only one that came out of that group with anyt'ing was Bob Marley & The Wailers. Because Chris take more interes' in Bob Marley like he put more money there, yunno. So it was more investment there. Then so, I dunno, t'ings was so bad lookin' at the time that when my time come to shine, Chris Blackwell and Harry J get into business problems. Q: But so it goes at times. A big setback nonetheless. A: Yeah, that was a big setback there. The only person material that finished recouped, was Bob Marley. All the three album, y'know, 'Burnin'', 'The Wailers', 'Catch A Fire', all those goes right through to Chris, yunno. And then Bob see what going on and Bob get a good manager, I believe at that time... Q: Don Taylor. A: Don Taylor, y'know. Don Taylor take over Bob, and so it was a different ball-game. Yeah. And that's where the problem started. And then when I see the situation that was going on an' learn everyt'ing, I just back out. I couldn't deal with it anymore, yunno. Jimmy Cliff was with Island too, you remember? Q: Yes. But not at this time, I think he was on contract to CBS at that period. A: Yeah. Cliff leave Island about '74, and sign up with CBS. Beca' you know, Jimmy was more of a pop artist more than reggae. Yeah. Q: So Harry didn't get you to come along on a tour warming up for someone else, a bigger name, which sometimes happened, to support 'Rain & Fire'? A: No, I didn't get to tour. Q: So you more or less went 'straight' from working on the first album to do the next one, 'Reflections', that never saw the light of day. A: Yeah, because I mean, I did those three album in the space of about a year. Because Harry was hurrying me up in the studio, seh, "Well, I want you to finish those three project, and so that when you start to go on tour to produce, you will have time to tour that you don't haffe t'ink back that yu will haffe run come back into the studio". I mean, at the time I think it was a good idea. You know? Ca' at the time he was saying to me, "You cannot tour and record at the same time, you will lose your grip on the music". Because he was tellin' me that tourin' is really a hustling t'ing and hard work, and when you're touring too much you don't have time to reflec' and write good music. And I hear what he was saying, and when you are young an' producer is tellin' you things like that, you agree with it beca' you t'ink it was a good idea. Q: Yes, but talk about milking someones ability at an early stage... Nothing new under the sun though. A: Yeah (laughs)! And I didn't realise that he put out 'Can't Stop Rastaman Now' either, until I went to England and see it on a label.

Q: Jahwax, or Jaywax? A: No, it was on a next label too. Beca' it was on a label, I forgot the label, it was subsidiary of the Warner Brothers one in Europe. I don't remember if I ever see that label - I just don't remember, but I know that that label was subsidiary with Warner Brothers there in Europe. Q: Yes (laughs), but there's good and bad with everybody, he's one of many and shouldn't be the object for being worse, or worst. Naturally you have to consider the good too. A: Yes, because meanwhile Island put out the album, I believe it was one of the things that Island and Harry J catch up with too, that was part of the problem. Because when Island put out 'Night Food', or if it was 'On Top' (the Studio One LP classic) - I don't remember which one, or somet'ing with a 'Party...'? Q: 'Night Food' was for Harry J and Heptones did 'Party Time' for Lee Perry after that, both for Island in '76 and '77 respectively. A: Yeah, 'Night Food'. Meanwhile Island put out 'Night Food', Harry J put it out and sneakin' under the underground and sellin' it too, and I know seh Harry J and Island was arguing over that too. Yeah. Q: Yep, so it goes as they say. A: Yeah, so it goes (chuckles). Q: What happened next? You did the 'Rastaman In Exile' album in 1980, which was for a company called SKEJ, how did this develop? A: Yeah. Well, after I left Harry J then I deal with SKEJ, he was a Canadian company. And he was worser than Harry J (laughs)! He was a slick pimp, he was an international pimp. Then what happened after that, I did the album, did a tour of Canada, and then he sold part of the album to - no, that's not really how it goes. I was in Jamaica and I met a guy from France name José Jourdain. And he came down to Jamaica, and he said that he was a talent scout for certain companies in France. So the guy that used to own SKEJ Music was a guy name Bert, and he was dealing with a big pimp business there in Canada, which I didn't know about. It was a ring of Jamaica and dealin' with clubs and pimpin' business, y'know wha' I mean. So when I went to Canada to promote 'Rastaman In Exile', and so the government catch up on him and chase him out of Canada. OK, then when I finished touring in Canada, he brought me to United States. When we come to the United States, A&M Records loved 'Rastaman In Exile' because that time A&M just signed Dennis Brown and they was gettin' into reggae. He took advance from A&M Records that he was going to do three albums, that he had three albums done from me already. And then he couldn't deliver the album because (chuckles)... Then when he found out that I found out that because the people dem that was settin' up the deal an' sponsor me down here to do the promotional tour an' t'ing like that in the States, they should get pay - Bert didn't pay them. (Laughs) He didn't pay them, so that is how I found out that he get advance money for the three albums, and he took off and run away. At the same time he sold - he gave this guy name José Jourdain 'Rastaman In Exile' to put out in Europe.

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Article: Peter I (Please do not reproduce without permission)