Q: You stated (to Small Axe) back in the eighties that you always got a fight for the type of lyrics you stood for, and still stands for, and then I wonder where these arguments came from and what they were saying in concrete terms, what they were putting down? A: Well, the thing is I can sing any kind of song I want to sing, right, I can sound anything I want to sound like. I can sound like The Manhattans, I can sound like Tom Jones, I can sound like anybody. But I wanna be me, I wanna represent truth and rights and justice, and not by sounding like these people that won't be representing these things. But what I'm saying is the kind of context that I'm putting myself in, the kind of content, and my content is geared towards humanity, or the reality of humanity. And I believe in life, in general, because life was made for people to live right, so as to keep that and not to disrespect that. Because, I feel like you have to move away from certain things so as to achieve these things and although you might not reach to the heights of where people would think they want you to be, but its not necessary to be where the people want you to be. My important thing is not to impress people, it's to impress the one who created me, y'know, and in doing the right thing. Q: Righteousness is about standing firm to those kind of principles, basically. A: Right, that's what I'm about, not to impress people. And I know for a fact that people whether they like my music or not they have to love the truth and love what I'm - I thing. And eventually the world is turning in such a pace that all these things we used to talk about, it's happening. True (chuckles). Q: It's coming back full circle. A: Right, y'know what I'm saying. What we were talking about, we were inspired by the Creator, and to talk about these things. I am not controlling my speech or what I'm saying, I just open my mouth and these things are coming. Inspired, inspiration from the one who created me, so... So, I respect the one who created me, and I was set out to carry on this work, y'know, talking about humanity, and that we can make it better for everyone, y'know, and for the world in general.

Willie in the middle, surrounded by Nicky Burch from the BBC and Jah Stitch. Pic taken by Steve Barrow outside Bunny Lee's house, Kingston 1992.

Q: As you know, there is always objections being raised about music being mixed with politics, or should I say social issues (it's the same isn't it). I think what differs reggae from, say, pop music in general, is the social comment where some major (pop) critics would have this as 'forcing' ideals and philosophy on people instead of being neutral about wherever you stand, politically or spiritually, and keeping it on a level where it's just entertainment altogether, and not a platform for social topics. I guess you've heard that stuff before over the years. A: Right. Well, when we read Prophecy, when we read the bible, that we grow up on, that most people in the world know about, there are lots of professions in the world, but it says that 'musicians and players of instruments shall be there', right? In the psalms, it said that, and the psalms were written by David and other musicians, and people who were inspired spiritually. Um, i'ts not 'forcing' things on people, I think what they're trying to do is to force people - with the pop people, or whoever. They force things on people because you can see how much money they spend promoting their stuff, and when you spend so much money into promoting stuff, people don't have a choice (chuckles)! They just see what you promote, and they accept that! I think they are the ones who are doing that, we're not doing that. We're just in that case if this was right what they're saying then people wouldn't go to school, because then they would just decide for themselves. So there would be no education too (laughs)! To have a frame of reference of what to do in the world. So what we are doing has nothing to do with forcing anything on people, we're just enlightening people to make people know who they are, that they're real, that everyone is made with all these features inside of them, it's just for us to turning it on. But what has happened I think in general you have a set of people in the world who are based on distortion, and misleading people and ruling over people. We don't want to rule over people, we just want people to be irie and know themselves and just to do the right thing, so as to make everyone to enjoy the creation that the one who created us, for us to enjoy. You know, we can do - everyone. We're not here to force anything, on anyone, we're not forcing on our music, 'cos it speaks for itself (laughs)! And, after all that has happened to us as black people, we're still goin' around with a message to the world, y'know, of love. I mean, it's not forcing anything, if any forcement is going on it's what went on in slavery, where we were forced to do things. You know? So we're not like the slave masters. We're more enlightened than the slave masters, slave masters were arrogant and ignorant. They didn't know anything, they were a set of devils who are in the world trying to distort the meaning of life and the meaning of the world, what it was meant for. So we are here to stop those guys. And not just us alone but the Creator who created us. And these people would be stopped, y'know, because people are getting sensible and more aware of what's happening. So we know for a fact that, y'know, a lot of people like to talk that we force the religion on people. We're not trying to force religion, because the only religion is righteousness. If you're not right, you're wrong. There's no in-between. Q: Right. And what you are saying or suggesting, it's basically something for each and everyone to decide for themselves. A: Just like when you go to school, the teacher doesn't force you to accept what he's saying. But when you go out then you see the reality of it (laughs), you have to accept it because that's what it is. And then, it's not everyone who knows. Q: Well, this music is thought-provoking at least. A: Yeah, food for thought. So, this is what we're about, we are not forcing anything on anyone. Q: But I'm pretty sure that you've met this attitude many times before over the years - to 'separate entertainment from social issues', like. A: Yeah, but that wasn't what the music was meant for, because when we check the origination of music, right, it goes way back. King David used to play his harp, and when King Saul was sour and vex within himself an' things like that, he would play the harp and he'd become happy, he'd become more conscious, things like that. So these things has come from way back, these things were commissioned not by people, y'know, just commissioned by the one who created us. That's what we're here to do. Q: Why did you decide to migrate to Canada, which was like, what, '74/75? A: Yeah. But to be honest, coming to Canada was (chuckles)... I wanted to travel for a long time, but I didn't make up my mind where I wanted to go. Because one thing was that I didn't want to go to the United States, because I didn't want to go into the army (laughs)! I'm not a fighter (laughs)! I was aware of that fact, that I didn't want to go into any army to fight for any guy. The only army I want to go into is the army of righteousness, y'know. So I decided, year after years with the music and everything, I wanted to see what was on the other side. And, I don't know, somehow I chose Canada. And I came here. Q: First time was to Toronto? A: Toronto. And I came here, was slow-going, y'know. I met Jackie Mittoo and started a band, played at different places, different hotels, different functions, y'know.

Willie Williams. (Photo courtesy Drum Street)

Willie Williams. (Photo courtesy Drum Street)

Q: What was the music scene in Toronto like at that time? When you came up, what was the Jamaican community like at the time in Toronto? A: It was small then when I came here. Reggae was something that we were introducing, and it was very small. At the time you had like small basement parties, and things like that. But nothing large. Q: No sound systems as such, yet? A: There was sound systems but not big, just for basement parties, y'know. Until years after we start to embark on making things, introducing the music to the people in general, and it became bigger and bigger. And I'm still here trying to work on it although it's a pain, in general. Q: Yeah (laughs)! A: Because Canada as a country hasn't accepted our music format within themselves, they are still reliant on the United States of America, so they are more like waking up to the music, weaker than Jamaica. 'Cos we have a format of music to ourselves, trying to push it out there. Canada, like, seventyfive per cent of the music being played here are from the United States of America. Q: Yeah. So you got over there almost from the start of a scene, you could easily say that you're one of the pioneers of the Canadian-Jamaican music connection then, ever since that time? A: Well, I am. I am one of the pioneers, because when I came here... Q: Stranger Cole was already there when you came? A: Stranger Cole was here, lots of artists was here but nothing was happening. Q: I believe Leroy Sibbles was there before you? A: No, he came afterwards. Lots of artists was here, we had... Q: Johnny Osbourne for example? A: Johnny Osbourne was here... Q: Ishan People was his band at the time I think. A: Yeah, he was with the Ishan People. You had... who else? Lots of the scene - Lord Tanamo. Q: Jo Jo Bennett? A: Jo Jo Bennett, y'know, Jackie Mittoo - all those people were here, but... Q: Ronnie Bop? A: Who? Q: Ronnie Bop Williams, the guitarist. A: Right! Ronnie Bop from Wailers was here - still here. And we met and we associated but what has happened is that most of the people who were here was still trying to impress by playing Americanised music. When I came here I wanted to introduce reggae music but it was very hard because most of the people here who came from Jamaica, right, they were like they wanted to play like Ohio Players or Blood Sweat & Tears or... the funk thing, y'know. And I came here with a burning desire to introduce reggae, and the only person who was really playing some kind of reggae was Jackie Mittoo. He was playing like the string thing now, the Toronto Symphony. So we had like 32 strings behind a reggae band (laughs)! Q: (Laughter) A: So we kinda differed. Q: So Jackie just played with an orchestra, or recorded at this time in Toronto too? A: Oh yeah, we recorded quite a lot of tracks during that time. But I wasn't too much into the orchestra kind of thing, I love my roots, y'know (laughs)? So when I met him at the time...

Jackie Mittoo.

Q: How did that meeting come about, had you met him before this occasion, like in Jamaica? A: No, I never met Jackie before - we met in Canada. And we incidentally - we were just living like next door, and we didn't know (laughs)! So, we started a band, with Joe Isaacs - the drummer, and Bryan Atkinson, the bass player (both founders of the famed Soul Vendors band). These people were like original Studio One players, and Lord Tanamo, percussions. So we had quite a number of people here (laughs). We started doing gigs, y'know, and introduced reggae to the mall. We used to go to the mall and play reggae at the mall. We scared them, like they thought we were kinda strange (laughs)! Like, 'what kind of music?' Q: Right, 'there's some aliens playing up there' or something. A: Yeah (laughs)! 'Where are these guys from?!' But it turned out alright and this was part of the introduction to reggae, y'know, what we now have as dancehall kind of stuff. Q: What was media exposure like at that time in Toronto? You had like one station who featured the music frequently at certain hours, like community or college stations. A: You had community stations from them time, and they play reggae like, y'know, maybe three times a week. You have Monday, Sunday, Wednesday, y'know, they had various times. Not right through the week you get reggae, but... Q: So there was at least some kind of reliable outlet. A: Right, on the community stations, y'know, for regular reggae. And unless you are on a big label, they don't put you there, on what you call the commercial stations. Q: Did Stranger Cole had his shop set up at that time? A: Oh yeah, he had a shop at that time when I came to Canada. I think Stranger Cole used to have a shop at the market section of the downtown area.

Q: Was the Half Moon label set up then? They recorded Stranger Cole, Joe Higgs, Carl Dawkins amongst others, a small operation. A: Yeah, yeah. It's a friend of ours, y'know, they had their stuff going on at the time and we've been around there trying to do something, 'cause it was like a community, y'know, and that sound. So we tried to make it into something. Half Moon, we did a couple of things for Jackie Mittoo and ourselves, and we came out with the 'Messenger Man' album, y'know. Quite a number of other things too. Q: What studios did you use there at the time? A: Lots of studios, because most of the studios here were professional studios, see. Um, they didn't stand up to the Jamaican sound, y'know, because we need lots of drum and bass and here it's more basically... Q: Flat, like. A: Flat kind of thing, so we had to reintroduce the idea of Jamaican music to these people. So, at the time we had quite professional studios which were very expensive, so we opt for doing it on our own little low budget level that we put together, like Half Moon sound, Summer Sounds... Q: And Half Moon had their own studio. A: Half Moon? Yeah, they had a little eight-track, a four-track studio set up there. Q: Just a small basement thing. A: Right, and it going into a scientable thing, and then, I don't know, we switch over to a studio called Summer Sounds. Q: That was like one of the pioneer reggae studios in Toronto, just like Half Moon. A: Right. All these studios up to now are like pioneer studios, it wasn't like anything of professional, or like the professional studios being around, but we could get the sound that we wanted, y'know. Some kind of sound out of it. Q: Who was this guy behind Summer Sounds, Jerry Brown? A: He was the owner of Summer Sound. A Jamaican, he was part of the group called The Jamaicans, initially. Q: OK, Tommy Cowan and Norris Weir. A: Right, he was part of that kind of outfit, right, and he moved to Canada, he started out this studio thing, y'know. He was a body man, a car-body man so he did this as his part-time too. And most of the music was concentrated at being in part-time, 'cos most people couldn't afford to have the music as an entity, weh you make it into a profession. So we did it on like weekends, that's when we would do it.

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Article: Peter I (Please do not reproduce without permission)

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