Q: What perhaps is not so well known is your songwriting ability - in different formats. You get your stuff published in other areas, and there was an incident with Stevie Wonder for one of the songs some years back, wasn't it, regarding songwriter's credit, some publishing obstacles - what's the story again? A: Well, my thing is that I have my own publishing company, right, and I do my own writing, and I write songs most of the time. Not necessarily for people, but people will cover my songs, y'know. And these things I have to keep under one umbrella because it's important to have a sense of the music while it is at the same time important to keep control of what you're doing so you can, y'know, see the benefits of this. So, I have my publishing company which I write songs for people and I mostly publish my own songs. We have stuff that we do from time to time which we introduce to people, which is used for advertisment or whatever, so it's right across the board. Q: So what happened with this Stevie Wonder 'rip-off' incident, with one of your songs? A: Well, what happened is that in 1984 I got a contract in England with EMI, to do an album. The A&R person by the name of Bob Currie and I we embark on doing this in Soho Square in London, and I started working with Aswad, the band I choose to use for these recordings. There was a company in England, I don't know if it still exists called PRT, they were a subsidiary of Motown, and they had liked my music. I had given them a cassette with my music, a song called 'Turn On The Power', and they wanted to release the song, but I didn't like the deal that they were talking about, because the money was cheap. At the time EMI had wanted me to work with Boy George and I didn't want to do that and so I took a break, left the tapes and everything with EMI which incidentally they still have my tapes, they didn't want to give it back to me. We left the tapes with PRT. The following year, I heard a song on the radio which was identical to the melody to my song that I had left with PRT, and it was done by Stevie Wonder which was called 'Part-Time Lover'. And it is my impression that they took my song and they changed the lyrics of my song, because it's the same thing, same melody line. So these injustices have been going on for years and years, just like how The Fugees they took 'Armagideon Time' and used a piece of 'Armagideon Time' into making one of their songs, on one of their biggest albums 'The Score'. And they don't give no credit for these things, so I find out that it's a trend that people have where most people can't write great songs or come up with great melodies so they just tend to plague other peoples stuff. And if you're not equiped with big lawyers like them then they just shove aside, 'cos most of the copyright people they're not even gonna do you right because the more you... (laughs). You know? 'That's Stevie Wonder, who are you?' (laughs)! But when I write my stuff I think it's clear, in general, and how it happened... Q: There was no court-case because of the size of the case, I mean the opponent there, who could challenge him? A: Well, I didn't take any action because to be honest I wasn't capable of taking any action, because to take any action you need money, to hire your lawyer, and I didn't have no money to hire a lawyer. So these guys just ripped me off. But I have a bigger lawyer, I have the Creator who created me and what is done. My perception of life is: if you do me something wrong, it's gonna come right back round to you, and even worse than what you did to me. So I just leave it to the Creator. You know, he's my lawyer, he's my judge (chuckles)!

Q: It came up to the mid eighties now, and you released the 'Unity' album through Black Star in Finland - how did this come about? A: The 'Unity' album? We get linked up through I was in London doing some stuff, releasing some stuff and I met Ray, Ray Hurford from Small Axe, and he thought that I had some great music and wanted me to know that there was someone who was interested in releasing it. So he introduced me to this guy who - I have never met him, just on the phone and things like that. Q: Tero Kaski (who passed away in 2001). A: Right. And myself and Colin Moore we embark on this album and put out 'Unity' which was a good album, did well. So, this was the association which brought forth that. Q: And at this time as well you had the combination 'Roots & Culture' album with Barry Brown for Uptempo, one side each. I think this was out one year prior to 'Unity'? A: Right, we had done a thing with Barry Brown with a company or a brother over there by the name of Steven King, he had a label called Impact at the time. Q: You mean Uptempo? A: Right, Uptempo. Right, I'm sorry, that's correct. And he put out the album. I gave him some singles to release and he put out a dual album, which I just realised that that has been expired for years and they still keep puttin' out a new album of me now, with some of this material which is unauthorised. So, you see, all over these guys they are a set of criminals who rip off people, so... And I intend to let this be known to the world - these guys, y'know, to the world. Without my permission they have this album out called 'One Love', y'know. So I just report this to my publisher and to my distributors and they are working on getting this straightened up. Q: Well, I certainly hope so. A: I hope so too, even more than you (laughs)!

Q: Right (laughs)! I bet you do. Speaking about what I would simply call a landmark record for what they in England label as 'steppers music' (a faster, disco-ish beat) and now in the digital age, how did this 12" for Black Victory - or Victory Records which I believe was mainly a record shop in Brooklyn - and that Jah Shaka made into a somewhat legendary sound system tune, 'Home Sweet Home' - also known as 'No Place Like Home', how did this take place? This was back in '86 or so, that you cut this tune. A: Yeah, I met this youthman by the name of Ibo, he had this label named Black Victory and we started out in doing some work. We did a single together, that's it. Q: It was just one recording you did? A: Just one song. Q: And what a record that is! It is such a perfection of the digital phase of the music, and what is so astonishing about it is that it came so early, because reggae had just experienced the 'Sleng Teng' craze the year before and this turned the music over to digital, a computerized format. Obviously the people you worked with on this occasion they pretty much knew what they were looking for, it shows anyway - an incredible track. A: Right. Yeah, well, we were at the studio and I like to help people in the sense of, y'know, I've helped to start off quite a number of labels by giving songs to people to put on their labels, like Sugar Minott with Black Roots and all those stuff, y'know, Yabby You. I try to help people in that way in the community, the music community, and this was one of the individuals I tried to help launch his label, the Black Victory label, with this song 'No Place Like Home'. Q: Was it recorded in New York? A: No, this was done in Jamaica. It was done in Music Mountain studio, Jamaica. And it's really a great music because it's a great song. Because people... um... they love it so much, y'know. When they have a dance in England... Q: Who laid the rhythm for it - was Pablove Black involved? A: Ah, yes. There was the Studio One band with Bagga Walker, Pablove Black and those breddas.

Willie Williams. (Photo courtesy Muzik Tree)

Q: Danny Browne? A: Yeah. Was it...? Yeah, no, wasn't Danny Browne then, it was the other Browne here - Cleavie Browne, he was the drummer (programming). So, y'know, that was something that was done at that period of time. Q: Then I don't know what you did in-between but some years later you did 'Sell Out' for New Name Muzik which was a new label and digital studio set up in Kingston around 1989, with brothers Noel and Castro Brown, Castro used to run Morpheus and the DEB label with Dennis Brown. A: Right, it was Castro Brown and New Name, and Noel Browne which is another of the Browne brothers. Q: I've never heard it, what's the content? A: What it's about? That tune is about, y'know, I was just talking in general (about) people who like to mistrust in general around our community, as people y'know. These people had to be more precasious, you have to be more caring for one another, and things like that. You can't just go around and taking people for granted, in general taking each other for granted. So that was the whole thing and I was trying to draw a biblical reference in how Judas sold out his brethren, and sold out Christ for the truth. You know, there's other paralells, but this song was geared towards that kind of atmosphere, so as to we as people have to stick together. Q: Come to think of it, you did something before this, which was in New York for the Wackies collective, Bullwackie. What was it? A: Yeah, at the time you had the apartheid that was going on in South Africa and he was releasing an album called '(Free) South Africa', or it wasn't released as an album called 'South Africa' - he had some music, some songs, and he wanted me to help him out with an album so I started to embark on this project and we did like about three singles. One of them was called 'South Africa', and he named a compilation album so and it was released in South Africa, in Japan and those places and I was told that by the media, the resident media where the song 'South Africa' was number three in South Africa, in the underground music places, y'know, and that was before Nelson Mandela was released. And I think the Jamaican people was instrumental in the release of Nelson Mandela because - and more so the musicians, because their songs are geared towards that... Q: The whole liberation movement. A: Yeah, that movement in general, and I was here in Jamaica. And in Canada I was working along with Amnesty International and the Greenpeace and all those people, and some of these people were having concerts regarding this, so... It was part of it, y'know, the movement. Q: Then there was something again around 1990, a 12"-inch titled 'Troubles and Problem' for King's Uptempo label. I read somewhere it being described as 'roots-ragga' - which sounds like a combination that doesn't work, but nevertheless it's a good song. I think that one did pretty well that year. A: Right, we did another single. I did like about four singles for Uptempo Music and along with some of my own songs which I had given for release at the time, that was like early nineties.

Q: But these records are somewhat rare examples of music that you have done for other people, the majority comes out on your own imprints. A: Right, most of the time when I give it for release on other people's labels it's my production, but I just leave it to them, y'know, license. Q: Same goes for 'Righteousness Is My Religion', that was out on a single on Ossie Thomas' (UK) label Black Solidarity, mid nineties or thereabouts. Overlooked song as I recall. A: Right, and the whole thing is basically, the reason why I don't work with most of the producers in the business is because most of the producers - not all of them - but most of the producers, they rip off people. And I know the business, and I don't like to see when people take me for a fool. Because I know the business and then they try to do it otherwise. So as to keep a cool head I just work with myself. Q: Then you did the albums 'Natty With A Cause' and its follow-up 'See Me' for Jah Shaka. I assume the connection to Shaka was for example partly because of his constant airing of that steppers classic 'Home Sweet Home' at his dances, it brought you together in more than one way. A: Well, I used to make dubplates for Shaka, Lloydie Coxsone and those guys in England, y'know, Fatman sound and all those people. But Shaka was introduced to me and he said that he would like me to do some work with him, which at the time I wasn't doing anything for myself so we went to a studio in England, and we had some rhythms and I just did some writing and collaborating with this brethren and we did an album called 'Natty With A Cause'. And about a year after, two years after we went back into the studio and did another album called 'See Me', which we used the Firehouse Crew for the rhythm structure, y'know, Gussie (Clarke) - Anchor. So, this is history so far.

Q: I remember I saw a few odd singles on Augustus Pablo's label Rockers International, after the Shaka records, and wondered if there's an album to come with this, since those singles ('Credential' and 'No War') were pretty solid and one hoped to see more with both of you collaborating, but nothing else came out. A: Yeah man, before Pablo passed away we had an agreement, we had an album that we was working on to be released by Island, 'cos he had a deal with Island. But he became ill during a period of time and these two singles were the only thing that became of the album. And unfortunately he passed away before we could finish doing it, so this is what came out of that. Q: Was it almost a full album you had completed at that point, I mean riddims laid for it and all, but you never got around to voice them? A: No, this was just two singles we had completed, we didn't finish the rest of the work. You know, we couldn't do any more work when he became ill and I was back and forth all over, touring in Canada, was in Jamaica - all over, y'know. So it was kind of hectic and by the time we get back to it, he had become ill, and he passed away.

Q: Can you recall the 'bogle' craze some ten to twelve years back, when Sly had you to do a cut on a stripped beat without any bassline whatsoever, and he called it 'Amagedeon' (issued on Taxi circa '92)? A: Yeah, the 'Armagideon Time'? Yeah, well, I like to keep abreast with what's happening and one of the things that's happening was like the kind of format of music that was then, y'know, the kind of 'bhangra' beat, that Sly introduced. Sly is my brethren from schooldays so we always keep a close relationship going. He wanted something to test out these kind of bhangra beats that he had, so he said 'well, let's try 'Armagideon Time'', and this was one of the songs that we did. And after that we embarked on some other songs that - there was three songs for his label, 'Music Maker' was the other one, and yeah, we did about three songs. We wanted to do an album but owing to the fact that Sly was busy, I was busy and still busy (laughs)! You know, we didn't get around to doing that, to finish it. But we're still thinking towards it, y'know. And looking forward to not necessarily the bhangra beat but to do some other work with him, otherwise. Q: Again, I hope it becomes reality, because that's a nice combination. A: Well, I have some stuff here that still isn't released yet, that we have quite a number of stuff, about an album of stuff that we have together. It hasn't been released as yet, so there's lots of stuff - unreleased stuff, I must tell you. So I've got quite a catalogue of stuff to work on, so I've been busy digging out tapes and rerunning tapes so that the tapes aren't detoriated, and things like that. In the future you will be hearing some new stuff, I mean some good stuff, from this source, y'know. Yeah man. Q: So what about the inclusion of 'Armagideon Time' in the soundtrack to the (Jim) Jarmush movie 'Ghost Dog', how did you feel about that? Did they ask you for permission to use it, or this is done behind your back again. They never bothered asking, or what was the deal? A: No, well, this is the whole thing I'm telling you about with companies like Heartbeat, I am the publisher for my work, and Heartbeat has a deal with Dodd to release the stuff, right? Heartbeat they went behind my back and they made the deal with the company to have my song in the movie, and they ripped me off! I am still yet to... We're in the process of doing some legal things with the whole thing, so I don't really want to elaborate too much, y'know. But yeah, they ripped me off with that, because I didn't know anything about it, right, and I'm the artist so I'm supposed to know before anything happens. Yeah, they're a set of guys who - they prey on people because the people are not educated enough toward the music business, so they know about this and 'cos they're living in the United States, I think they think that they can do anything, just like how you can go and attack a rack (laughs)! So they feel that they're immune from the artists from Jamaica because Jamaica is just like a little pea in comparison to the United States so they can rip the artist off anytime, and they know very well that they're ripping off the artists, but they behave like they're stupid. You know, like they're not aware of it. We're in the process of legal redress, so I just leave them up to my legal thing, y'know, legal acts. Q: What about the other commitments you have apart from all the independent productions for yourself and Drum Street, you mentioned to me last year that you freelance a lot and produce for others around Canada, you said something about working with a rock band lately? A: Oh yeah. I write stuff for people, and as a matter of fact as you mentioned I have been working here doing some stuff with a rock band here in Canada to get things sorted out. We did a fusion of reggae and rock together. So, they had loved my music from a longer time and they were introduced to The Clash version of my music and things like that. So we've been collaborating and I think soon we will be embarking on some stuff to get sorted out. I've done some stuff last year, early last year with them and its for release... Q: What's the name of that band? A: We have a band by the name of Big Sugar, and another by the name of... 'Shocks' (chuckles). These rock bands, y'know! I can't recall the next name, but they're in Vancouver and we've been talking about collaborating on some stuff, and you have a group by the name of Lackro, you might have heard of them? Yes, a rock group, so we might collaborate with some of those guys, 'cos we've been asked and we're still in the process of what we need to do, and as soon as I hear from these guys we will do it.

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Article: Peter I (Please do not reproduce without permission)

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