Article : Willie Williams.

Q: So what about this film project you spoke about a couple of days ago? First of all, what is being shot there and what will become of this, all the material you have in the can, shot in Canada and in Jamaica.

A: Yeah, in the seventies we started out, the person that we spoke about, Jerry Brown of Summer Sound studio, we started out doing a project of trying to do a movie of reggae in Canada, and we embarked and most of the artists who were here, who were professional people known around the world like Leroy Sibbles, Jackie Mittoo, myself, (Lord) Tanamo, even Jerry Brown himself. Because he's a part of that kind of thing, the foundation thing. So we've done a lot of footage of these things, and documented them so I am in the process of trying to get these things sorted out where we can release them.

Q: In some sort of documentary form I suppose.

A: Right. Maybe doing a documentary or something more of a learning process, y'know, where people can get some education. Because I suspect most of the people are not educated about reggae so they don't know the fullness of it, and we need them to know about that. Hopefully these things can get sorted out the right way.

Q: What sort of footage is this, if you can recall some bits and parts that you've got on it?

A: We've got stage shows and mostly we've got concerts, we've got...

Q: Backstage stuff, interviews?

A: Backstage stuff with people, yeah. We've got interviews, we have house things, y'know, like house parties where we come down - just the whole thing, y'know. Plus I've got some stuff from my touring, concerts, different places in Canada. So I'll combine them together and we'll have something. So hopefully, we're looking forward and soon we might have, we should have something out there.

Willie Williams
(Photo: P. Lecceur)

Q: Listening to the latest album 'Full Time Love' (issued on Nocturne), I have to say I don't get that same kick out of this no matter how well it's done, which it is anyhow, as listening to for instance the first album. Without comparing them, there is certainly something lost nowadays when the 'dirt' I always refer to, what you got through a more compact recording technique, if that was from the tape compression itself, or the board. Now it's just too clean, I would prefer another edge to it. What do you personally feel about the sound you get nowadays?

A: Yeah. It might be cleaner, but it's not necessarily the better. The thing is what is happening is that the instrument and the equipment that people have nowadays are totally different from what we used to, right, we used to have acoustics. Now they're talking about digital, right, so when you're recording on a digital thing you might get a cleaner sound but the acoustics, the warmness of the sound, you won't get that, and the warmness of the sound you get come from the acoustics of the room and the instruments that you're using. For example when we used to make a recording back in the sixties and the early seventies we had like real acoustic pianos, we had guitar amplifiers - acoustically tuned. We had the tape that you record on...

Q: The quarter-inch.

A: What is quarter-inch or a 24-track or two-inch, or whatever, it was more geared to a more acoustics, the console was different, y'know, the whole thing was different. Now when you reproduce something you get a sound of todays sound, which is a clean sound but not necessarily the sound you wanna get or you're looking for, right, because the warmness of the sound disappears of the cleanness of the sound. It's like you find a document and you try to clean it up to make it look more cleaner than it was but the more you're cleaning the more you're erasing what's written on it.

Q: Right, right.

A: Yeah (laughs)! It's that kind of scenario, right. So this is the reason why I decided to get involved with having a studio for myself, where I can put out the things that I want to hear, not necessarily because I know most of the people. I don't even think they know what they wanna hear nowadays, things are imposed upon them. And so they just accept things, they use the computer and things like that. What I'm doing here now, I'm trying to get the whole - my stuff - in the format of an acoustic studio, y'know, where we use least digital technology, where we can establish the same warm sound that we had before, but we can improve it, to make it sound even bigger but the same way, not removing any of the ingredients from it.

Q: And it's still the perfect format for listening to reggae music as I hear it, the old time format. All the dirt is packed within those grooves.

A: Yeah. I think most of the people who are doing it right now they're not experienced, especially not the engineers too. So, if you wanna get a clean sound the only thing they're experienced with getting is the digital sound, right. They're not experienced in getting the shaping sound - that's important. As a musical person in the sixties, early sixties and the seventies, you had to shape the sound. Now as a musician or the engineer, you don't have to shape the sound anymore because it's already shaped in the equipment that you have. They're less reliant on their ear, and their ability to shape a sound and to make it into what you want it to be, because it's already there in the equipment. The only thing you have to do is to pump up the volume (laughs)!

Q: Yeah, true, true (laughs)!

A: So there is a lot of technology that is missing from out of what to make this thing to - what it's supposed to be. So until these things are redressed, and you still have people who can do these things but most of the times maybe they don't give these people the opportunities to do these things, because you still have Sylvan Morris, the guy who used to make Studio One - he's still there, and he still mixes. But maybe the younger people might think that 'oh, this guy is an old guy, we need some guy who knows the sound what is happening in North America now'. But I am a reggae enthusiast, I am a reggae fanatic, I am a reggae person (chuckles), y'know, I am a reggae pioneer, so I want to keep the sound of reggae going, y'know. Not necessarily the sound of dancehall, or the sound of rap music - but the sound of reggae, 'cos that is the real thing.

Q: I think what you nowadays get out of a digital technology or a state-of-the-art, twentyfour-track studio isn't necessarily the best for the overall listening experience, at least of hearing reggae music. You get a stronger sound for this music on, say, an eight-track and analog, the way it used to be. Maybe even less than eight tracks, let's say four is the ideal thing. I'm questioning if reggae needs more than this.

A: Right. I think the more tracks we have, and you can sense it in the music, is that the music becomes more selfish. Because when we had two-tracks, everybody had to be at the studio the same time to do the works so we had a more...

Q: 'Unified' feel, like.

A: Unified, more human feel to it. Now you don't have to be there, one at a time, one person can do it and one person sits around a computer and make a whole rhythm, is not the same as when you have five or six persons making a rhythm. There's more to it, there's more feel, the whole thing is different. And that's why most of the people, the musicians and the artist now, they embark on not making any rhythms anymore, they start to sample the rhythms that were made before. This is not art - you understand? This is a mechanical thing of trying to duplicate something that is already there. The true art and the true artists still makes his own thing, from whatever source it is. But as I'm saying what we're trying to do is to keep the sound of the music as it was.

Willie Williams at SNWMF 2006
(Photo: Sista Irie)

Q: That's good news, creatively speaking.

A: But it's not necessarily one type of sound, because in the sixties and the seventies when we had different sounds, you had like Duke Reid sound, you had Randy's, you had Studio One.

Q: You could more easily identify these, the individuality was perhaps more apparent.

A: Yeah, it's different sounds, totally different sounds, so you weren't locked into one kind of sound. I think more so today you are locked into one kind of sound because when you turn on your radio, or your television, and you listen to the rap channel or to the deejay channel - whatever channel you listen to, it's just one channel you're listening. You know, so I don't want reggae to fall into that kind of thing, because we have a variation of sounds and artists. Because when you listen to Toots & The Maytals and you listen to Bob Marley & The Wailers - it's two different kind of sounds. When you listen to Ken Boothe and you listen to John Holt, it's two different kind of sound. So although it's reggae, it's two different kind of thing. It's not like you're listening to, when you listen to any of these rap artists nowadays, or you're listening to any of these singers - all of them sound alike.

Q: True, I know.

A: So, y'know (laughs)... it's a different thing. We are the artists and these people are just living off the veil of the (original) artists. They're not really true artists, 'cause they have so much things to enhance. Right now a singer doesn't sing a song right through, they sing it and then they sample pieces and then they patch it in, so I don't rate these people. The people who make songs nowadays they don't make a rhythm, they don't take a rhythm that was hit before and they sing on top of the rhythm, so when you hear that song it's automatically a hit because you had already a hit with the rhythm. So that's not a true artist, that's not an artist. An artist is someone who come from the ground up and produce something, creates something. When you go on top of someone's creation and I think the only thing you do is defame it (chuckles), you know what I'm saying? So I don't rate none of these new artists. If you want me to rate them then they have to come original with their own stuff and then withstand the test of time.

Yabby You.

Q: Speaking about the spiritual concept that has brought Yabby You into a big conflict with the Rastafarian community generally - at least he used to be, that he considers himself a 'Jesus Dread' and the interpretation of this is that Jesus Christ is in the centre of all things, contrary to what Rasta is about on a whole with His Majesty Selassie I as the spiritual leader - like the second coming of Christ, or even looked upon as the Almighty Creator of Earth, and you've stated before that you share Yabby's belief in this regard.

A: Well, if you understand what Yabby You is saying, right, if you read the speech of His Majesty Haile Selassie he talks about Christ, see? And the homage that you have to pay to Christ - Christ is not a person, Christ is a way of life. Seen? The man who they call Jesus, 'Jesus' is a European name for him, yeah, his name is Joshua, seen? And these things whether it's the people who don't agree in the sense of what Yabby You is saying, they don't understand what they are saying themselves, right. Because His Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie he states about Christ and the way we are supposed to deal with life, in general. And when you read, you will understand. There's no conflict - it's just a misunderstanding of other people. It's just like how people don't understand what the man who they call Jesus was all about, and they say he died but he didn't die, he come to tell people the way of how to live, and he conquered in the sense of if you live life and you live how the Creator created us, there's no death.

Q: I guess it creates some confusion with your music too when you say 'Jah' or the Lion of Judah - which is His Majesty, considering your belief that Selassie is not in the centre of things.

A: We're talking about the Creator, the one who created us all. It doesn't matter who or what you call him, right? We're talking of the Creator. There's lot's of names for the Creator, some people call him Allah, some people call him Buddah - you know what I'm saying? Some people call him all kinda different names. The name has nothing to do with it - it's the action, how you live, it's your way of or life of living, that's the key, that's the Christ in your life, the way you live. You know, if you live the right way then you're living the way of Christ, if you live the wrong way, then you live the way of the Devil. So, it's a livity.

Q: And bearing this in mind you don't say specifically that you belong to any congregation of the Rastafarian movement, like any of the tribal sections out there, you're never specific there, lyrically.

A: Rastafari doesn't belong to anyone personal, Rastafari is for everyone. Rastafari and Christ is for anyone. You know, it's not for one person, it's not for one nationality, it's for everyone. It's just for you to accept the facts and the reality of the whole life, and live that life (chuckles), and then it's up to you, y'know. But it wasn't made for one person or one nationality or one country.

Q: It's a universal concept.

A: It's a universal concept. It's just that you have other people who want to break away, and you whe you have a break away, people want to be rulers, so they break away and have little factions, y'know, where you say something different over here and somebody say there because you want to rule people, because most people are not educated towards these things. When you are educated towards these things people can't rule you, you rule your own life, the whole life is within you. Everything is within, right, it's time that we have to find these things. Even the house you're living in now was inside of someone before they threw it in a plan, and make it into a house (chuckles).

Dr. Alimantado.

Q: Speaking about some singles you were involved in, there was one in the mid seventies on your Soul Sound label with you and someone called 'Youth Winston', or Winston Youth, which I assume is Dr. Alimantado, titled 'Revenge'. You recall that one?

A: Right. Well, that is Dr. Alimantado, that was the first recording he ever did in his life, see? And he came to me as a young man and he wanted to be out there to be heard, so I took him to the studio and we did that single. And the reason why that name is on there is that I didn't remember his name when I went to the press, to the record press (laughs)!

Q: You did it in Canada? Or it was cut in Jamaica, it was done before you left?

A: No, that was done in Jamaica. I didn't remember his (artist) name so I just - I remembered that one of his names was Winston, so I just... And at the time Big Youth was the sensation, so I just put 'Youth Winston' (laughs)! He wasn't too pleased with it, 'cos he said 'Uh, my name is Dr. Alimantado!' (laughs). But we got over it, y'know, and that was it, was a great recording.

Q: You had one tune on the Halifax label, called 'Say Say'. It's not included on any album so far?

A: Right. No, that's not on any album. We have all these songs to come out too. As I'm saying I'm compiling all these songs and my audience out there, the people who like my music, and people who love good music in general, will be getting a feast of some good music soon because I, with the help of the Creator - 'cause He's the hand that help me, He's my help. I'll soon will be releasing this stuff, whether it's on a license deal label or whether it's from my label, it will be out there shortly, y'know, soon. I think, I suspect this year actually.

Q: And there was one titled 'Love Zone (Stay In My Heart)' on your Soul Sound label too.

A: Who's that?

Q: Your own song, came out in '74 or thereabouts.

A: What's the name of it?

Q: 'Love Zone'.

A: (Silence) OK, 'Love Zone', yes! Those were like versions, y'know. That was the time what was happening, at the time, that you had cover version for your song, or something.

Q: What do you feel about the 'new' conscious movement in the music, what some refer to as the 'nu-roots'. The aggressive approach by some deejays in the Bobo camp, 'fire burn', what's your view on that?

A: I think the whole world has been changing, in the sense of people, y'know. And you have people who are looking out from different perspectives, to think different. But in everything, there's been an injection of negativity, within the music system also. And I don't think it's just done on an innocent basis, it's been done to distort the reggae music and to distort the whole thing. Because remember, we are the people who came to the western world in bondage, in slavery, and we're trying to explain and to break away from this stigma. The music has changed in the sense because the whole world has changed, so people has to get all of these things sorted out. So, we have to know what we're doing in the music industry and as the world has changed, in general, I think the music atmosphere has changed too. But still you have conscious that exists still but because of the media outlet and all these things, I don't think that they want all these things to come out, so they're putting out the part that they want to come out so as to make the people look depraved, and to make the whole thing look like a depraved thing. But the powers that be will change this, and make the right thing to come out. But this is what I'm saying, that's why we in general at the time of our period in the music industry of the era, we got so much fight because you have these people, these forces who don't want the real thing to come out, and the truth and the whole thing, so they will put all kinds of stuff out there so as to distort what is it, or what it is, y'know, as reggae music. But we know that in general the truth will prevail and the right thing will prevail, just like how the winter turn to spring, to summer, that's how the world is. In the course of time, these things will change, but its a world thing.

Willie Williams at Lambeth Festival 2006, London. (photo: Varese)

Q: And musically speaking, where the music is right now, the current state of the music?

A: Well, I think where the music is right now it has been put there because people have been injecting money in the music so as to distort it. This is what I'm saying - they want the music to sound stupid and to sound like the musicians are stupid, and what is being done. If you notice they promote the derogatory and the more depraved part of the music more than the cultural part of it. So its not a mistake, its a definite thing that is made by the forces that be, that they want to distort this thing so as to stop it. But it's stronger than them. If they can stop it then maybe they can stop the sun from shining, and they can stop the rain from falling, because this is the power that controls this music, and the whole thing. Yeah, eventually the real thing will come out just like how we didn't talk for years and you just talk to me now, right? And there's lots of things like that, that people didn't know, and they're just knowing now - the truth will prevail, no matter who or what they're injecting it with. I can see the negativity that come out of there, sure, but just like in the sense of when you turn on the BET here in North America, you see a lot of negative connotation of people, y'know, the durations (?) of people of how they move and how they dance and all these things, especially amongst the black people. And not just black people but people in general, they want - the force want these people to bow to them too, to deprave way. But we're here to change that and not just us but the powers that be. So, look for good things, man (laughs)!

Q: (Laughs)

A: Although you see a lot of negative connotations, look for good things because good is, y'know (laughs)!

Q: That's it then.

A: Yeah man (laughter).

Q: So what's ahead for you, you have completed a follow-up to the 'Full Time Love' album?

A: Well, we have a new album we're working on like the 'From Studio One To Drum Street Pt. Two'. I have a vintage stuff that I will tell you that we've had over the years, some of the Summer Sound, some of the Yabby You stuff. We've got so much stuff we - I'm kinda confused which one to put out first, y'know (laughs)!

Q: (Laughter)

A: But we got lots of stuff, lots of stuff to come out this year. So, just let the people know, look out for stuff and feel free to give me a shout if you're not getting justice (laughs)! Yeah man.

The second 'From Studio One To Drum Street' came out in December last year. It features more of the sort of music we've come to expect from the Williams vaults, not quite up to the heights of the first volume, perhaps, but coming pretty close. Since this interview took place, Sir Dodd passed away suddenly in May last year as is/was widely reported. What will happen to the remaining Williams material at Studio One would be interesting to see now, if there is a lot stronger recordings in the can then we're in for a treat. Listening to Willie's latest studio album, the Nocturne-released 'Full Time Love', it features a line-up of musicians playing things the vintage way, Bobby Kalphat sits in on keyboards and longtime partner Gary Lowe takes care of the bass amongst others, putting more acoustic layers on top than heard in a long time, and a return to form it is. Much of the music was cut at Gussie Clarke's Anchor studio, the equal-sign for a high standard productionwise. Earlier albums have been more or less compilations of previously released songs throughout his career, the new and the old thrown together. Here the general impression is not so inconsistent as it sometimes tends to be, the album holds together pretty well in other words.

Still, I find the other Williams albums all worth an investment, 'Thanks & Devotion' being of particular interest when the much sought-after Shaka-favourite 'Home Sweet Home' (aka 'No Place Like Home') finally found its way onto album-format. Shortly after that disc came out Willie reissued the tune on single, this time on the Soul Sound label as a 7"-inch. The original version of said tune was included on the 1995 release 'Jah Will'. On that CD you will find the magnificent 'Talking Loud', an earlier single that should've received more recognition than it did in the mid nineties. I consider it to be one of the better Williams productions from that period with its characteristic uptempo rhythm, wild 'horn'-riffs and address to those 'standing proud and talkin' loud and saying nothing', the almost slow-motion tempo of 'Love Power' is another good shot with Willie telling us to 'not underestimate the power of love'. Sometimes I find him on a par with Beres Hammond in terms of skill in the lyrical department. Sooner or later his vision will win you over, he's an observer, a watchful eye, more often than not pretty sharp, uplifting and enlightening in his lyrical world - 'one should never underestimate the power of Willie's ability with a pen' as I would say. He has a passion for reasoning, anything else than thought-provoking seems out of the question. I put the 'Messenger Man' album on the turntable once again, it's been a while. I get the same vibe as I did several years ago. The organic feel found in these rhythms has not been matched since the day they were recorded, it is simply as close to a faultless collection of songs he's been, where all parties involved must've felt something special going on. No wonder why people 'in-the-know' still find this record worthy a serious re-release, which Blood & Fire will take care of later this year for us, including the so far unreleased dub versions. It's easily his most accomplished long player project yet in a career spanning almost forty years. His distinct vocal style has always been of interest. At times he's attacking the mic fiercely, like for instance on the superb 'Why', the track opening the first volume of 'From Studio One To Drum Street', a CD which also collects tracks like the Yabby You-produced 'Armagideon Man', 'The Unification' and 'Jah Aquarius' - all previously hard to come by 45's, amongst others.

I remember reading somewhere a reflection of his approach to singing, where it seemed he had 'all the time in the world' to deliver the lyrics. You could describe it as a meditative form of singing, almost chanting at times. In any case, this is part of the attraction with Willie Williams, along with the distinct voice that draws his listeners to paying attention to what he has done over the past twentyfive years or so. If you feel the music has lost much of its ideals from the past, then look no further. Some artists won't fall for trends, but they adjust themselves just enough to make some sense out of what is currently happening out there. Willie is definitely one who has absorbed all the changes and made something constructive out of it. The message has remained intact over the years. His perspective has always been welcome, just as much now as it was then.

Visit Willie Williams' website : www.williwilliams.com

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Article: Peter I
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