Article : Winston Jarrett.

Q: Other than slagging them off for not fulfilling the deal in terms of compensation, and so on, is there something you could say was positive about recording for someone like for instance Joe Gibbs, of the recording or producing aspect, learning how to produce properly, etc?

A: Well, what you really are saying is a good t'ing you say, I did learn a lot from those people, producers. That's how I get to launch myself more stronger in the business by learning the whole business, singing is one thing but producing is another thing, and distribution is another thing. So, you gotta learn all those things. First time I didn't know about all those things, I didn't know a crap or anything, only to sing. I learned a lot from Joe Gibbs and Lee 'Scratch' Perry and Prince Buster and Clancy Eccles and Bunny Lee and all those man, I learn a lot from them, what I really learn is to stay in the business. A lot of people them don't stay in the business, all now you don't know what happened to them because they run themselves out of oil, and because they run themselves out of oil you don't know what has happened to them again, you don't hear nobody talking about them anymore. So, to stay in the business is the key to success, because you wouldn't know if you left the business if you're gonna be successful and you don't know what gonna happen. Like I said I didn't know what gonna take place in the business, it's just a couple years ago the music business make a big turn for us, or for other people. Like myself too, didn't know what the business gonna be (like). So, right now, I'm not telling no lie, I've gotta give thanks and praise to Jah Rastafari His Majesty I to keep I and I safe and sound up to this time and still in the business an' even going stronger now in the business. Because I sub-pass a lot of things that could get you pissed off and you die and I see a lot of people and I know a lot of people that die also from that time and some people are really eating out of the garbage pan, and good singers and good musicians they're not getting any work anymore and they're still around some of them, and some are not. And I learned a lot from that, y'know. So I give thanks and praises to Jah Rastafari for guidance and protection and do the right thing in life and strive to stay in the business. You know, as long as you're living you have a lot to learn, you never stop learn until you die. As long as life is in you, you see a lot of things that's happening - you would never know that's happening, and that things like that will be happening to each and everyone. Because we have flesh and are mortal and we gotta just know how to live good and praise God and know that there is a God. I don't business what a man want to call God, beca' him have so much name, thunderable and terrible amongst the heathen. But I say Rastafari every time, y'know, and I know say spiritually and deep down inside of me heart He is hearing me and know that I'm talking the truth and the truth shall make you free. So I just gonna give thanks and praise to Jah Rastafari for this time - for life! Life is very important. You have to know how to live and who to mix with and who not to, you have to know a lot of things. I give thanks for Jah for the knowledge I really have and continuing to learnin' what life is really about.

Q: Life is one long lesson.

A: Yeah man. So, I can't choose the way some people choose, y'know, because them don't know them head from them brukstick.

Q: It's about perseverance, isn't it?

A: That's right, perseverance shall make you conquer. I just love the people them that is around me and people who love me and likewise I check for them. If you don't check for me me no care a hell for you, man. Especially if you are a wicked person and you don't want to learn and hear what people are saying, y'know, you can go to hell for me. But I am opened up for knowledge and I am opened up for people who can really have - work with me along the way and I'm not alone in the business, the business is a big business for a lot of people who can do the right things in life and teach you the right message and help people who you see worser than you, and just do the right thing in life.

Q: And as an artist you gotta accept the ups and downs both creatively and as far as success goes, it wasn't easy from the very beginning and wasn't gonna be easy thereafter.

A: That's why I'm here now because I'm working very hard over the years and I still want to go further in my career. I don't want to really hook on one thing all the time, y'know. And what really 'appen now, the world cyaan do without music - what a world it would be if no music, 'cause when you're down and out is the only thing that inspire you in your lifestyle and make you more strong and even when you're hungry when you hear good music you belly full and your brain - you 'ave brainfood and your belly full, y'know. So you get that brainfood an' your belly full. I don't think I'm gonna stop do music as long as I live, because as long as the breath is blowing I have to come with good inspiration all the time, for Jah always give me a good inspiration to move further. What I want to do is to put me music across to the international world, to keep support me and keep doing what they're doing. We just be a one family because that's what life is all about, and try to do the best. But I want to get my music across to a wider audience. I'm doing a lot of more work now pertaining to my career, y'know.

Winston Jarrett.

Q: But you're not making...

A: I'm not making no money, no good money, yunno. But I know that man like the I, y'know, will help by publishing this.

Q: Sure, I hope it'll help create some fresh interest. Wasn't there different people passing through in The Flames apart from members like yourself and Eggar, like Lloyd Charmers who I heard was that 'dark' voice on 'Cry Tough' for example?

A: Yeah, but nuff different people don't realise that now, you have to talk the truth. You see, I have too many names working on it, at the same time it gonna be like a stumbling block. You have to identify what you are doing so you can't work with two names. But Lloyd used to sing as The Charmers - he and Teddy Charmers. Teddy Charmers died two weeks ago (in California, Feb. '04) from a heart attack here in the States. But Lloydie Charmers could play the piano and the organ very good, and he's a good arranger and writer and producer. But Duke Reid didn't love him. He was like, y'know, he's a man that very stick out for money and Duke Reid don't like when you stay that way. He's not saying that you mustn't defend your rights but Lloydie Charmers, I dunno if Duke Reid did really, really love Charmers. But Alton Ellis love him and he's a good friend of Alton Ellis, also myself. So he really sing on that song, that basstone, baritone voice (sings): 'How can a man be tough, tougher than the world...', he has that low voice in there, but that is the only song. But more time we use Simms, Skully, 'cause we grow up together, y'know, like a family from that time even up 'til now, Skully. Yeah, his name is Zoot Simms.

Q: I heard he got blind a while back, sadly. But I guess he's doing pretty well otherwise.

A: Yeah. But he's in Europe right now.

Q: You mean with the Jamaica All Stars?

A: Yeah man, and with Skully he's in Europe performing right now with The Skatalites, and with Justin Hinds also (who sadly passed away in May this year). They're travelling I hear two times in Europe, every year. They have a new album out, with 'Dizzy Johnny' (Moore) from The Skatalites, touring right now in Europe. And he get a lot of work in Jamaica all the time on the Heineken Startime.

Q: You have performed on that show as well?

A: Yeah man, I've worked on Heineken Startime two times with me and Eggar Gordon and Alton Ellis, more than five years ago.

Q: Seems like a good platform for vets in Jamaica, that show.

A: Well, they're trying to bring back the music business - the music industry so to speak, in other words back in Jamaica again. So, a lot of things are happening down there now where the music is concerned. You still have those kinda dibby-dibby type of music, some of them - not all - but you can take out some of them like Luciano, Beres Hammond an' all those man keeping up the flag and some more artists, y'know. But otherwise from that a lot of them is crap, and there's a bag of noise like they don't have no ears to listen what music is all about, y'know. And you know what? They're supposed to teach the younger youths what is coming up in Jamaica especially, and teach them music. If they don't do that they're going to be in a serious problem because all they want to do is say 'Hey man, give me a badda riddim yah!' That's a Studio One they're listening, 'Bwoy, it bad yunno, mek me go 'pon it now!', and it done. And them want claim the riddim and them want to do what them want to do with it. So that's why Downbeat now stay the way it stay, nobody can use him music, the arrangements. Even the basslines or take out anyt'ing from them music or reduce the music down to, y'know, whatever. So the music make a big turn in Jamaica right now, they're trying to put on a lot of stage shows in the ghetto and all that and trying to bring back the community together, stop the crimes and people can get work and so forth. Bring back the country - maybe not a hundred percent but seventy-five percent or less better, more than just leave them to do what they want to do. So the government is on top of that now, I am very happy to know that. I was down there, I just come back from there so just telling it like it is straight from the horse's mouth about what is really happening in Jamaica in the music industry. And you have a lot of young producers now producing their own music instead of going to some of those producers to recording them, they don't want to do that anymore. They're tired and sick of it. Everybody want to make a little money for themselves and do their own producing. That's what's really happening down there, so the music business make a big turn and they have a lot of programs that came down there, the old stuff, like myself, y'know. Like Stranger Cole, Derrick Morgan, Delroy Wilson, The Maytals - you name it.

Derrick Morgan.

Delroy Wilson.

The Maytals.

Q: That's good.

A: And I don't know if you've seen that they have Studio One, they come out with a documentary film now and the whole career of the music. I was watching it here on Sunday, and I do tape it from the tv because it's really good to see and know where the music is coming from and teach a lot of people who used to go around and talking this and talking that about where the music started from, and they take a piece from me and take piece from different people and they put it out and write what they want to write in a magazine and publish it. But this video that come out right now they can teach a lot and people can learn and see where the music start from with Bob Marley and the whole artists with Max Romeo and Lee 'Scratch' Perry and Coxson and the Ethiopians, and everybody is on it, y'know what I mean? So, that is very good. They never give us old artists the credit, man. They're only crediting themselves that them do this and them do that and know what's not, y'know, and we're just making them know that, man, that is not the way the music really started. You don't know so we're letting everybody know, from east to west, north and south. No badda where you are you can get the message.

Q: How did you find Duke Reid to work with?

A: Well, what you've heard about Duke Reid is true, because is an old policeman, I knew him of that. He carry three gun, one long range and one tire on his hip - like western, he have one on the belt and right around the belt is pure shots. And he's not a man - he's a man who is a two-minded person, half of him good and half bad, y'know. Because he is an old policeman retired he has the whole police force behind him to back him up in any t'ing. So, he owned that Treasure Isle and downstairs he sell liquor. If you have a bar or a club or you keeping dance you can come to him and seh, "Duke, I need some beer on consignment", and he have two hundred box of anything come together. He have maybe fifty box of beer, twenty-five Heineken, ten cartons of cigarettes. You just tell him what you want and he put everything on a bill and check it up and give you, and you pay half of the down-payment and you go with balance and when you come back you'd pay the balance and you return back the bottles and the boxes and he subtract that what you bring back from what you pay. If there is a profit then you split the profit and you take half and give him half, that's the way him do business. So if you want to mess around Duke Reid and you don't do the right thing, man, he's gonna come after you! When I say 'come after you' - no joke, he's gonna come after you! Maybe you're not gonna see him but you gonna see some man, maybe three or four man come for you and kidnap you and carry you down by Duke Reid and you have to pay. And if you don't wanna pay, man, he gonna lock you up. I always go down there all the time and when I bruk and don't have any money I say, "Duke, I bruk an' want a money", but he always laugh off me and don't give me. But his wife will go in the drawer and she take out a little change, pure silver, and put it in her hands and lock the hand with the money inside of it and jus' tan you the money. And when you feel seh is a good money is all maybe one pound or fifteen shilling and they give you one other little case with about four pepsin and a pack of cravin of salt and when I go now and turn to Duke I say to Duke, "Duke, I beg you some record on consignment". And you told him what of you want and I said, "OK, give me three copy of 'Girl I've Got A Date' and give me three copy of 'Breaking Up'", and he said: "That is six, no more! But don't come back yah so". I'd go by the soundman them and because it's brand new record I sell them for four shilling or change six or five shilling a copy, and hold a little change in the pocket, can buy a little food and buy me herb and cigarettes. And I have a small money too sometimes I go and buy thirty copy, the amount consists of three of this and three of that and sell (to) soundman so every soundman get to know me. And they tell me that 'Flames, when you're coming back, man, bring me this and bring me that', y'know. I buy some other songs and sell them on and make a little change fe myself. So that work out a way that I can own a little small change over the weekend for myself in my pocket, so that's what I used to do when I'm not singin', go around and buy the record and sell them back and make a little change for myself.

Q: Hard work.

A: Yeah. So, because of that now I used to go from house to house and sell records so everybody inside of them home pick out a little change and buy a copy for them stereo, and sell a couple copy with the soundman like King Edwards, Count John, and all them man deh. No matter what the sound is, we go small sound, big sound - any sound! We just go sell them my lickle record and make a change for myself. So when me reach home at night, midnight, sometimes twelve o' clock, sometime them man hold me up, stick me up an' take 'way me change, lick me with gun an' rob me and all that, but it still don't stop! Hard life to live in the ghetto, man! Very hard life, in Jamaica. It's crucial fe you as well, y'know, you come out and be a man or a woman an' you just have to show the world the type of person that you are, what you want out of life, and the road that you took and make sure that everything is successful and...

Q: And to maintain that continuously.

A: Yeah, you have to maintain that all the time, man. So that is what carve me out more to make me be what I am. Those type of suffering and agoning, pain and tribulation, that's what carve me out and made me be strong now and firm and just know seh is Rastafari live every time!

Q: There's light at the end of the tunnel.

A: That's what I always say all the time, man! Yes Peter, a so we haffe deal with it, yunno. Them don't conquer we. No I! Man no really believe in that way, and that type of lifestyle, y'know.

Q: But a lot of people got deeply hurt, or should I say damaged by the record business, like for example Slim Smith.

A: Me and him used to spar every day, anywhere you see Slim Smith you see Winston Jarrett. Me and him used to go up and sit down and burn herb every day. Yeah man, a me good friend that, man! Where him come from the Treasure Isle days with Techniques, the original Techniques. And the first man who took me to Treasure Isle studio is Baba Brooks, he blows trombone.

Q: Yep, the man behind 'Shank I Sheck'.

A: Yeah man. And you did have this drummer here who was there too, I dunno if you brain can really recall back but this man is called Drumbago.

Q: Yeah, he was early, even before Lloyd Knibb (the Skatalites' drummer).

A: Yeah man. Well, when me go to studio the first time those type of musician was there and Lyn Taitt was there, those was the musician we started with. And Jackson on bass...

Q: Jackie Jackson, underrated bass player compared to a few others I'd say.

A: Yeah, and Drumbago on drums, Winston Wright on organ, Gladstone Anderson on piano.

Q: What happened to some of those, like Drumbago for instance?

A: Drumbago died.

Q: What was the cause?

A: He just die, I dunno. Nobody talk about Drumbago and nobody speak about Baba Brooks, nobody whatsoever talk about those musician. And the next musician nobody speak about is Winston Wright.

Q: The organist, yeah.

A: Yeah. And Gladstone Anderson also, nobody no remember those musician, and they're very - Winston Wright died.

Q: I heard about that, died broke.

A: He was poor, and he play on every track, two tune out of four songs, y'know, of all the recordings done in Jamaica that man play on.

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