Mykal Rose: “When I came to the table, Black Uhuru became something.” (The Interview)

—like “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner,” “Shine Eye Gal,” “Plastic Smile,” “General Penitentiary,” “Whole World Is Africa”—[and] so many more. And of course I have some questions about these historical works. But first, I want to start by asking you about this very soulful and upful tune you released just last month, called “Jah Loves Me More Everyday.”
Yeah.

[Released] [o]n the “Big Feet” record label, which is based out where I am, in California. It’s a very hopeful song.
Yeah.

Was there anything in particular that provided you — at this time in your life — this inspiration to come up with this song, “Jah Loves Me More Everyday,” right now?
Yeah because everyday right now with what’s going on in the world — too much hate, you know? So you have to take on to God nowadays. You just have to pray, you know?

Respect. Respect. That’s so true.
And love god more. Because a lot of people are living in fears, and lies, and untruths of today, you know?

Yeah. It’s such a great song. While the lyrics to the song, which folks can check out, because you just released the official lyric video—
Yeah.

—which is on Reggaeville. On the[ir] website. About three weeks ago, I think. And the lyrics are very straightforward—
Yeah.

—like the song title, and [just] very beautiful in their simplicity.
Yeah.

There’s one verse though that I’m not sure that I fully grasp. And it seems like it’s a very profound verse — and you’re the man to ask. You sing, at one point in the song, you sing, “How can I be reluctant from a distance, protect me Jah, guide my life….” And I had a thought about what you meant, but I’m probably wrong. My thought was—I was wondering whether you’re asking how can someone—or yourself—how can you be reluctant to embrace Jah from a distance?
Yeah.

Is this what you meant?
Yeah! How can you be reluctant — yeah, exactly.

I had to give it a lot of thought — to make sure.
No, no, no. That’s what it meant.

Nice!
Yeah man.

And it’s so true, so true, oh man.
You see, it’s like days like today, I concentrate on the lyric content. Not to be of the past of anything, but just fresh for the new generation right now. You know?

Yeah. Respect. Mykal—
Have you heard “Glory to Jah?”

Yes. And I’m about to ask you about it.
Oh, okay.

The way I was gonna preface that question was—
Yeah?

—was just to say, your musical output, the sheer number of songs—and hit songs—that you have out there, “in the ether” as they say, it’s just massive. And as I was about to say, in fact, not long ago, again on the “Big Feet” record label—
Yeah.

—you released—it’s a wonderful again, very upful, soulful song, “Glory to Jah”—
Yeah. Yeah.

—as you said. In February, as you know, but maybe all the people don’t, this tune was the number one song on the New York Foundation Radio Network.
Yeah.

And I believe you told — I know you told — the Jamaica Observer, that this song, “Glory to Jah,” was primarily inspired by the pandemic, true?
Yeah. Yeah.

And so can you explain a little bit though? What did you mean?
Well, you know, a lot of people, if you notice, since the pandemic, they, they—people want, people are craving to share love most each and every one. You know? It’s just “Glory to Jah.”

Because you have to stay distant? You have to stay apart?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All these things that have come upon us?
Yeah, we just have to give the glory to Jah so we can outride all of the bad energy, you know?

And I think we will.
Yes.

Now people should immediately go download, and listen to that song.
Yeah.

Because it’s so conscious. And with the song, Mykal, I want to take the opportunity to ask something very general about your style.
Yeah.

I guess some people call it the “Waterhouse Style,” though I know you have said before — and I actually tend to agree with you—
A lot of people say “Waterhouse Style” because a lot of people favoritized my style—

Yeah.
But because they want to discredit me, they say it’s “Waterhouse”; but really, it’s Mykal Rose style. (Laughing)

(Laughing) They try to — I agree — let me tell you what, I agree. So I heard you say this once before—
Yeah it’s like—

—and I agree.
It’s like nobody wants to give you the credit, they’d rather to give Waterhouse the credit there. They don’t want to give Mykal Rose the credit.

Oh wow.
But, it’s okay.

Well, I don’t know but I’m glad you say that, and I agree with you. When you sing—
It’s like a fender-bender, you know? (Laughing)

(Laughing) Now, when you sing, as you often do — and I’m not gonna come close—
Yeah.

—I’m not gonna even try. And this guy even tried to spell it online, so I’m gonna show it to you.
Yeah.

He spelled it “S-D-I-N-D-I-G-H-I-D-A-I-D-A-D-I-N-D-W-O-Y.”
Oh? Okay.

Only you can say this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Can you say it?
What?

“S-D-I-N-D-I-G-H-I-”
(Singing) S-D-I-N-D-I-G-H-I-D-A-I-D—

Yes! Now when you hear this, anyone in the world, you know immediately who you’re listening to — you know immediately it’s Mykal Rose.
Yeah. Exactly.

So let me ask you, because I’ve always wanted to know this — does this have a patois meaning? Or what does this mean?
It’s a creativity within me that comes out. Because at the time of my career, you know, I had to create that sound for myself. Because when I started out, I used to sing like Dennis Brown. But then I changed.

Wow. To be more unique.
And create this sound, you understand?

Yeah.
And when I created this sound, a lot of people feel like maybe they want to own it, or, you know—

Does that one line, that one word though, I’m so curious, does it actually have a patois meaning to it?
It’s just a ska-ting—it’s just a melody.

I mean you create an entire — you can create an entire rhythm sometimes — sometimes, you just—
(Laughing) Yeah. Yeah man. It’s just a melody for the human being, you know? It’s just different.

It’s amazing, man.
Yeah.

So, now, “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner?”
Before you go so far.

Yeah?
I was the one who took Black Uhuru to Sly and Robbie — to make all of this happen.

Yeah.
Because, before, it was nothing. When I came to the table, it became something.

I think most people would say — I’m comfortable saying that you took Black Uhuru international.
Exactly.

I don’t have a problem saying that. (Laughing) So—
(Laughing) But a lot of people, you see — I don’t know what with people — people try to — they don’t want to admit that I am the man who made the thing happen. Who make it to the Grammys, you know? And I’m just in the background like—

That’s how [some] people would like to see you?
Yeah, like to treat me. And they’re “the person.”

Well I think the Black Uhuru fans know, the real ones know—
Yeah!

But now, if it’s okay, I want to ask, because this song is so critical to me—
Which one?

“Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner.”
Yeah.

And it has to be one of my favorite all-time reggae songs — ever.
Yeah.

And my understanding is, and honestly I didn’t know this until fairly recently, that you wrote “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner” even before you joined Black Uhuru—
Yeah, I—

—and unless I’m mistaken—
Yeah.

—this was the first song, in fact, that you recorded for Niney the Observer—
Exactly.

—after he discovered you following a talent show, true?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wow. Now Mykal, you talked about this briefly, in 2005, with Peter I, in an interview. So a long time ago. Folks can go find that interview online — it’s actually on [the] reggae-vibes [website], where I publish too. But I love this song so much. I get excited every time it plays. So I have to ask, were you a Sidney Poitier fan, and were you just determined, after you saw the movie — were you determined that you just had to make some lyrics that would be genius, and fit into the reggae category?
No. Alright, ‘nuff respect to Sidney Poitier—

Yeah.
You know, no discredit or nothing like that—

Yeah.
—but the whole thing around “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner” is like the uptown — you have the high society people—

Yeah, for sure. Uptown and downtown, yeah.
And then you have the rastaman. Who’s coming from nothing.

100 percent.
Well the rich man’s daughter took home the rastaman to a dinner at her house. And the dad saw all of that. And said, “No, no, no. no. It’s not gonna work. Not that guy!” You know what I’m saying?

Not that one!
Not that one! And it was a big issue all over Jamaica with the rich. And the rich man’s daughter wants to be with the rastaman.

Yeah. So that just—that was what juiced it for you?
Yeah, that just kicked it in.

That came together for you.
Yeah.

Now, I’m just so amazed by this — this song and how you crafted it. There’s another song that I also want to bring up, because again — and you sang it tonight, I’m so happy that you did: “Sponji Reggae.” It’s another one of my go-to Black Uhuru classics — I would listen to that all the time.
Yeah?

And I remember as a youth—
Yeah.

—again I was very young. Back before any allegations were [ever] launched against Bill Cosby—
Right.

—watching — I remember vividly — I can remember watching the Cosby Show—
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

—and then there was an episode—
[Bill Cosby] was dancing to the song.

Yeah!
I saw it, too. I was frightened.

And Denise [Huxtable] — Denise brought her boyfriend home — he was into reggae—
Yeah.

—and they played “Sponji Reggae.”
Yeah.

You were frightened? (Laughing)
Yeah.

(Laughing) Why were you frightened?
Because, you know, it’s like the Cosby Show. And like Cosby Show is a whole soul in America, and like—

Yeah!
—you know, when it happened, Sly [and] everybody start[ed] [to] say “Yo, Sponji Reggae a-play on this Cosby Show—”

Yeah!
Mi say, “wow.”

But that’s big! That’s massive!
Yeah.

But why would you be frightened? Wouldn’t you be like, “Wow, Yeah!”
No — well, to know that somebody like—

Respected it so much that they played it?
Yeah—yeah. Mi just kinda frightened — frightened for that moment.

It was so awesome that it frightened you — that’s what it was.
Trust me. Trust me.

I got you, okay, I got you.
So it’s like, “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner” to welcome the rastaman, but then “Sponji Reggae,” having fun — on Cosby — you know? (Laughing)

(Laughing) Yeah. Oh man. When I saw that — I don’t think that — I don’t know that reggae has ever had such a — it was such a big moment.
Yes I.

So I’m glad that you saw it. That’s what I was gonna ask you. Now this is a silly question maybe, but did—
No, see, it’s not a silly question maybe—

No, what I’m about to ask — the one I’m about to ask.
Oh.

Which is, did Black Uhuru get any kind of a payout? Because this song played? Did you get — did the Cosby Show write a check and send it to Black Uhuru?
Oh well, like, we get money, we get money from the publishing.

So they must have, right?
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, okay. (Laughing) I just want to make sure that the Cosby Show did Black Uhuru right, you know?
Yeah.

They played the song, they better pay the money for the song.
Yeah. Yeah.

Alright, well good. Now when I last interviewed Duckie [Simpson], in 2019, he said he wrote “Emotional Slaughter,” in part, in response to the death of Puma Jones. And Puma, of course, died a very untimely death. And a lot of people, when they knew I was gonna interview you—
No, but Puma was the one who sung on the song.

Yes?
So, how could he do a song like that for Puma. I don’t understand. She didn’t die yet.

I don’t know. I’m just telling you what he told me.
You understand what I’m saying?

I hear what your — I have to go back and look—
And if you listen to the voice that’s singing it (singing): “Emotional slaughter…”

Yeah.
Puma is singing the high — in this one.

I’m gonna have to go and look at all this.
So, mi a-tell you sometimes people tell you stuff — you have to be careful what they say. Because you see what him tell you?

Yeah.
And then when you justify it now, you ask me but she never dead yet—

Yeah.
So how could he say that?

I don’t have an answer.
He says a lot of stuff—

And let me say this—
Listen. You see that man?

Yeah?
He, he does a whole heap of things, right now. He yap-yap a lot of stuff.

So Mykal, before—
He yap-yap a lot of hate on me.

I know.
But I’m not hating on him.

Well then let me say this then, you know actually, you know what, we’re gonna jump ahead. Because this was a couple of questions ahead. And I actually brought — because I have interviewed Duckie, as you know, twice.
Yeah.

And this is the way I was gonna ask this, Mykal. Because I want to give you a chance to do what Don Carlos did. Because, there are — well let me say this first. When I interviewed Don Carlos, okay, Don said to me, because I got into some of the Black Uhuru stuff, right?
Yeah.

The beef and all this stuff, right?
Yeah.

And he said to me—
He created that beef. Nobody had no beef but him.

Are you talking about Duckie?
Yeah. He created that.

But Don said to me when I — so I just want to volunteer this to you—
Yeah.

Because this is something that actually — Don Carlos blew me away. And I actually have imported this into my life. So what he said was, he said, “You know what, Stephen” — he said this, “Stephen, I like to keep my heart light like a feather.”
Yeah.

And—
He’s right.

And he didn’t want to [get into the Black Uhuru beef]. But because I’m a journalist, and because I write about reggae—
Yeah.

And because Duckie — he said some of these things. And there’s actually two or three quotes—[things] that he said—and these are things that I would want to ask you about. And say, “Hey, what do you want to say about this? Because this is what he said.”
It’s garbage.

But I can tell you what he said.
It’s garbage, man. I don’t want to get into his garbage.

It’s up to you if you want to get into it.
He talks all kinda shit about me. I don’t care.

So you don’t want to get into it?
Nah.

Okay. I just wanted to tell you.
Because you know why?

Yeah?
Because that man claims he’s suing me and all kinda shit. And served me summons.

Still?
Like three years ago. Or something. Before the pandemic.

Yeah? Wow.
He had some guy give me a summons. Say[ing] I’m using Black Uhuru’s name. And I wasn’t using no Black Uhuru name. That guy’s just trouble. So I don’t want to get into his—

Fair enough. And that’s why I wanted to preface it by what Don Carlos said. Because he said the same thing, I don’t want to get into it.
Yeah, no, mi don’t want to get into it. Because he said a lot of stuff right now, where he’s—

He’s catching himself—
Yeah. Him in a whole heap of trouble right now. Him talk a lot of shit about me, [and] it’s gonna turn around and bite him.

A karma thing?
Yeah, no, see because he thinks it’s like — this is American, man. You don’t get up and talk anything you can — [think] you can talk about people [with no consequences].

Yeah.
And I think, well, [and] say, oh you slander people and talk all kinda shit about them, and then you think you’re gonna get away with it?

It doesn’t always work, that’s true. Now, I’m sorry to have raised [that], but the reason why I did is unfortunate, because it’s unrelated. And the reason why I did — I wanted to talk — I wanted to focus for a minute on Puma [Jones]. Just because there are so many Black Uhuru fans out there — even some who, when they knew I was gonna interview you, they wanted me to ask you about her—
Let me tell you something. Puma’s husband—

Yeah.
—and my wife—

Yeah.
—is like half-brother-like—

Oh? Wow.
‘Cause Carol’s stepdad had a kid with Puma’s husband’s—mother.

Oh? Okay.
So Duckie has a way to say I treated Puma bad. Nothing like that. When Puma—

He didn’t tell me that.
Oh, he didn’t tell you that? [But on] social media, he did. He talks a lot of shit.

Oh? I didn’t know this. I didn’t even know that.
But anyways—

I was just curious about her.
Yeah.

Because I don’t — she was a big part — when [Black Uhuru] was ruling the world—
Yes!

—she was a big part of that. And then she died.
Yeah.

And a lot of people don’t know about her, including me. What was she like even?
She was irie, man. Yeah man, she was an irie, irie sistren.

Yeah. She brought a lot to the table when it came to what you guys were doing. Right?
When we met Puma, it was a joy. It was a rastaman named Kojo—

Who made it happen?
Kojo, a rastaman. A good friend of Mortimer Planno.

Yeah. I was talking about [Planno] with Johnny Osbourne [in an interview earlier] today.
Yeah. [A] great rastaman, you know?

Nice.
Kojo was the one who introduced — told Duckie about Puma.

Wow.
And then [we] went up there and we saw Puma. Just from looking at her — how she looked — she just fit the group.

Wow.
And we just said, “I need you to sing opera.”

Wow. Really?
Yeah. And—

That’s not what I was expecting you to say. (Laughing)
(Laughing) No, man, we just did I say, yo, an opera. Just sing opera.

Wow!
And it was history.

Wow! Mykal, when you split from Black Uhuru, you famously, you left the music business for a spell. You went up into the Blue Mountains, and you started a coffee farm.
Yeah.

Do you still have the coffee farm?
Yeah, it’s still there.

And why did you choose to plant coffee, and not some other crop? Why coffee?
Because at the time coffee was one of the crops where — it’s like 300 acres [my farm]. So I just did like 150 acres of coffee—

That’s a lot!
And then the reason for coffee — that area where the land [is], you have people from the village who know how to plant and—

Cultivate it?
—treat the coffee. So that’s the reason why we did that—

And you employ—
—so the people dem could work, and pay themselves. So dem children go a – school, and we just—

You employ a lot of people through that operation?
Yeah. Yeah.

Now that marijuana is — you know, legalization is a thing—
Yeah.

Even Jamaica, when I went in 2020, I interviewed Chinna in his yard—
Yeah.

—and I saw on the beach even when I was there in 2020, right before the pandemic — I saw dispensaries on the beach where you can go and buy weed—
Okay.

—and stuff.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Would you ever now, because, you know — would you ever consider converting, or at least growing — you know, you have all this land, would you ever—
Oh. You see what happened now, you see I think the marijuana thing, is not a thing where you jump, just jump [in] and say you want to do it.

It’s not easy?
No. Because you can go and plant it, I think, and it’s not up to standard.

Yeah, yeah.
And then it’s a big loss. So, I don’t know if it is something where — it’s not something you can run [easily].

Yeah. Is it something—
It’s something where you have to go and know all about before you deal with it.

And because, you know, you have some songs, like [tonight] you sang “Sinsemilla”—
(Laughing) Yeah.

But let me ask you first this question, back in—
I’ve heard [of] a lot of people who tried to meet that marijuana stan—thing—

Standard?
—and it don’t make the standard.

And then they lost their crop; they lost their money.
Yeah.

I hear you. Now were you back in the day, when you were young, were you a big marijuana smoker?
Yeah, man. What you mean?

Well because there are a lot of Rasta people who I meet, and sometimes they don’t even smoke weed. I ask them and—
Oh.

—they don’t even smoke.
Well maybe they had enough in their time.

They might have.
Yeah. I used to smoke a pound of weed every day. I get myself in too much trouble, I — the police—

(Laughing) You and I could hang out.
—everything.

We could hang out, Mykal.
Yeah.

In fact, I was gonna ask you — [but] I ran into [promoter] Scott [Stanley] who helped me out — if you had a stalk of sensimilla in the hotel. But don’t worry about that, because— (laughing)
Yeah.

—I’m good. But in an interview, Mykal—
Yeah.

—that you did a few years ago with “Reggae Seattle,” you said that you used to do the hotel circuit on the north coast of Jamaica, when you first started your career—
Uh-huh.

And that there was a member of your hotel band who was smoking weed. And they wanted you to be an informer, but you refused.
Yeah and dem ask me to leave the band.

Yeah, and you got fired as a result.
Yeah.

And then my understanding is you went back to Kingston. And it was Sly Dunbar who kinda helped you out — he instilled some confidence in you, and told you, you know, don’t give up. Is this true?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sly say, “Don’t worry about it. Just write some songs, and come back.” And that’s the time when I turned up now with Duckie.

And you did your Black Uhuru thing.
Yeah, Black Uhuru.

Now although he is easily the best drummer in the world, Sly strikes me — when I see him, and the one time I interviewed him—
Sly and Robbie?

Yeah.
[They are] [g]reat–great!

They are fantastic. But when I met Sly, and when I talked to him, and when I see him doing his thing, he seems to be to me, to be a very quiet, humble, soft-spoken, nice—kinda shy almost [guy].
Yeah.

But obviously, you know Sly a thousand percent better than me.
Yeah man.

And you’ve named him to be a huge influence in your life, and in your career.
Yeah.

How would you describe Sly Dunbar’s personality as a man? How is Sly?
Well hear we now. You see Sly from longtime — even when Sly did just start, before he play[ed] the first drum in his life, he used to play a pan; you know, like cheese? Jamaican cheese comes in a pan—

Yeah?
—that’s round. He used to have those for his drums when he practiced. And he used to put like rubber—

How old was he then?
—he used to use the tube from the bicycle—

Yeah.
He used to put the tube on the end — at the end of [his] [drum] stick[s]. And knocked the ting.

And that’s how he made his drumsticks — wow.
Yeah. That’s how he mek him drum-tings. From the cheese parts. (Laughing)

How old was he — how old was he roughly when that happened—would you say?
Well actually mi never seen him do it, because remember Sly is older than I am.

Oh yeah—true. But you’ve learned about that.
Him tell me say, him play the butter-pots. (Laughing)

(Laughing)
Yeah. (Laughing)

If he can play the butter pan, he can play anything!
Exactly. Yeah, if he can play the butter pan he can play anything.

Wow.
And Sly is always watching the Billboard chart, you know he’s always in the studio working, no matter what happen[s]. Sometimes some people can’t pay him for the work, but him still work. And build the riddim.

He loves the music; he’s so close to the music.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He’s dedicated. That man there used to listen a whole heap — like twenty riddims a day.

What a legend.
Yeah, that man there work hard. The thing is, with that man there, inna the business, you know, it’s like we have [to tip our] hat to Sly; because that man there keep the music up, and keep it alive.

True.
Apart from what it becomes. Dancehall — or whatever today. But that was the base of the whole ting.

Sure.
To keep the music alive.

Respect, Mykal.
Yeah.

Mykal, I regret not being able to interview Puma [Jones]. But I’m happy and proud to have interviewed Duckie, Don, Garth, Andrew Bees, and now, you — such a critical factor in making Black Uhuru, as I said, an international phenomenon. I feel very spiritually — very close — to Black Uhuru as a result [of] studying their music as a young boy—
Yeah.

—to growing up and interviewing so many members of Black Uhuru. And I was curious, Mykal, you called me on the day that Garth died. And I wondered whether you had read my interview — because I interviewed Garth — and I wondered whether you had read my interview of Garth?
Oh, well I — I don’t even — I can’t even tell you right now.

Yeah.
But Garth Dennis was a good brederin.

He was! He was such a good guy.
He was a good brederin.

The first time I ever saw Garth Dennis was at the Reggae on the Mountain festival—
All those [Black] Uhuru tings started by his place.

Yeah — at his house, right?
Yeah.

And the first time I saw him, just to finish the thought, he was helping an old lady in very hot weather in California — to just walk to get to her car. That was the first time I ever saw Garth Dennis — that’s what he was doing; so I knew, you know, he was a good man.
Yeah. He was a nice brederin, you know, he just had too much on his plate. And he didn’t know which direction to go [in].

Wow.
Because when him did start out, he used to sing harmony with us.

Yeah.
And then, like when we start to do the ting, you know, when I say, “Yo, come,” him a-say, “No,” he’s going with Wailing Souls. So him did have too much on his plate.

Yeah, too many things in different pots,
Yeah. Yeah. But good brederin, you know?

Mykal, we’ve already — I’m gonna skip my Duckie [Simpson] section. Skip. Skip.
Yeah (smiling).

All I need to state is we’ve broken the ice, Mykal; we’ve met, finally.
Give thanks.

I’m so happy for this. And my hope is we won’t be strangers. Whenever I see you — if I ever see Mykal Rose coming to Los Angeles, I will try to—
I was just in L.A.—

I know and I missed you, because I had to go — I was out — I wasn’t in L.A.
Oh. Yeah.

[So, ]yes, I saw you were there, and I was like [gosh]!
The “Jerk Festival,” right?

Yeah! I saw that, man — I saw that. But I will be keeping a lookout for you. I hope that we will stay in touch.
Yeah.

Because there are so many more questions I want to ask you about your very, very illustrious career. But for today, I want to give you the last word, and ask you just one last question—
Yeah.

—which is this: What message, Mykal, would you like to convey and communicate to all the many, many Mykal Rose fans around the world today? What do you want them to know from you as they struggle with life?
Well it’s just to let them know that we just never give up the music. And we always gonna be making good music, you know, for listening ability of the nation. Mi a-say give thanks for life. And for all those ones out there who [are] struggling with the pandemic and everything, wi a-say woy, you know, I know each and everyone have a crav[ing] to share that love out there again in the world.

True.
Yeah, we have to just stay safe, and give Jah the praise, you know?

Mykal, give thanks for the blessing and the honor. May Jah guide and protect you in all of your travels. And may we meet again.
Yes, my brother.

Oh man.
Give thanks.

Mykal, thank you.