Ansel “Meditations” Cridland: “My songs—the way I write—it has to be truthful” (The Interview)

When: October 17, 2022
Where: Los Angeles & New York (via Zoom)
Reporter: Stephen Cooper
Photos/Clips: Courtesy of Stephen Cooper and Ansel Cridland & the respective record companies.
Copyright:  2022 – Stephen Cooper

The Meditations are one of the most righteous, roots-heavy bands in reggae’s storied history. Not only is the band legendary in its own right—with many hit songs and acclaimed albums—The Meditations provided backing vocals for reggae’s biggest stars—on some of their biggest tunes.

On October 17 I was blessed to interview Ansel Cridland, a founding member of The Meditations. Ansel’s still making irie, conscious music that uplifts, challenges, and instructs, and further, that often praises—and always honors—His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I (the former emperor of Ethiopia and King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Conquering Lion of the tribe of Judah).

During the extensive, wide-ranging 90-minute interview, Cridland and I spoke about many subjects of interest to reggae fans, including but not limited to: the early history, hit songs, and classic albums the original lineup of The Meditations released; the most recent Meditations album called “Smile Again”; Cridland’s early childhood and coming-of-age; and, Cridland’s reflections on working with reggae icons Sly Dunbar, Bob Marley, Lee Scratch Perry, Willie Lindo, and Gregory Isaacs.

What follows is a transcript of the interview, modified only slightly for clarity and space considerations. Embedded in the transcript are links to The Meditations’s music, exclusive images and photos, and more. At the end, there’s a link to the entire video of the interview—available on YouTube

Alright! Hello?
Yes. Greetings, greetings.

Greetings, Ansel.
Irie.

Can you see me and hear me okay?
Yeah, I’m hearing you okay.

Okay, cool. Hey man, it’s great to connect with you. Please tell Sharene I said, “thank you.” And I want to start by saying, on behalf of Reggae-Vibes, Ansel—
Okay.

—how thrilled and honored, and thankful I am, to interview you today.
Alright.

For myself and for millions of reggae fans internationally, The Meditations are one of the best, most righteous bands, ever to come from Jamaica. So I just want to thank you for taking the time to sit down with Reggae-Vibes—[to] reason with me for a little bit. And Ansel, because you are a legendary singer who has been making music for more than 50 years now, I want to, if it’s okay, by way of introduction, just provide a roadmap. Just an idea of some of the topics I want to talk to you about today—[to] reason with you about today. I want to talk about the early history, the hit songs, and some of the classic albums that the original lineup of The Meditations—yourself, Danny Clarke, and Winston Watson (rest in peace)—released in the 70s, and the early 80s. And then, later on, too, of course we’ll talk about the lineup of The Meditations in current times, and for more than 15 years, which, of course, consists of [first], yourself, the only steady component of The Meditations from the start. And then, supporting you [now and during the last 15 years,] Daddy Lion Chandell and Laury Webb, who you, I know, tour with.
Okay.

If Danny—are you telling me, Ansel, that if Winston hadn’t been walking through the gully at the right time, The Meditations—the [original] lineup of The Meditations as we know it, it may not have happened?
Well, no, I don’t think so. What happened after that now, Winston no come around no more now. And then we start to rehearse more now. So a lot of other young youths would come by us, and a-sing, and a-sing. And we was there playing. Lots of people! People coming from all different areas, you know? And I sing, sing, sing, sing. And, you know, we sing like The Impressions song, “I’m So Proud.” And one day now, come from work and mi hear Winston say, “I record a song, you know!? And Danny sing, too.”

Mi say, “For who?”
Him say, “Dobby Dobson.” That time—when we sing “Woman Is Like a Shadow,” it’s the harmony dem come and give me—[Danny and Winston]—you know? We didn’t [become a] group [even after that song, yet]. At that time, it came out as “Ansel & The Linkers.” So, we go on [and] we do—when [Winston] sing the song “[Wo]man Piabba,” that was an old song. And that song took off in Jamaica.

I have to ask you about that song, too, because that song—I hope you don’t mind me interrupting you, but that song is so awesome: “Woman Piabba.” And it’s such a funny song. And it does, like you say, it features Winston—
Yeah.

—and it’s such a cool song. I was curious though. I love the song. And it feels like a very distinctly Jamaican song. In fact, as an American, I’m not quite sure that I’m understanding everything that’s happening in the song. I get the gist of the story is that the singer is wanting something to eat. And he’s seeing an old lady. And she’s selling goods, but all she really has is a bag full of different weed.
Uh-huh.

And then the singer is explaining that the old lady is trying to get him to understand that, “Man piabba bush can really full your belly, but [you] have to cook it in a black pan.” (Laughing) Now—
(Smiling) No. What’s happen[ing] there now—you see, when [Winston] came to I and tell I about the song, I was curious about that song. Because it was the first [time] I heard that song. I didn’t know what the song was all about. I just liked the melody, and the way he was singing it.

Yeah, it’s got a lovely tone.
I didn’t know the meaning of the song.

Yeah. What does it mean?
When him tell I that it needs some more words in it. I was just putting those [additional] words to have it last for the three and half minutes, or whatever it is. Never really realized what it was singing about—what the meaning [of the song] was all about. Until, there was a man I met out at 3 Mile. And he was singing the song to me. And him tell me it’s an old, long-time song where him say all these things that’s singing—it’s bush. It’s the bush that cure you. So, that is the mistake I make in it when I [sing] “full your belly.” If I didn’t know—had the overstanding—it’s when I heard it now and I, after awhile I get stuff started. Listening to the song, it’s the bush they’re talking about, and what the bush done. I said, “Man, I should [have] put “cure” in that song—I shouldn’t have put “full your belly.”

(Laughing) Ha-ha, it [should be] “cure your belly.”
(Smiling) You remember, the bush is [the] collie weed, you see? Collie weed is what cure your belly. Cure sickness and tings.

True.
Yeah, but you know [that’s what] happened. (Laughing)

Did—I’m just curious, too—I don’t mean to go back in time to “Woman Is Like a Shadow,” but that song is so great. Did you write “Woman Is Like a Shadow,” or did all three of you guys together write that song?
I write it. I have that song—I [wrote] it [a] long time before I met Danny Clarke. Before I’d even met Winston.

Wow.
Because that time is when we call Winston to come do the harmony in it. Because the first person I take that song to was [Gigi]. I come with “Grow Your Dread (and make it be a long dread),” and “Woman Is Like a Shadow.” And Gigi select that song. And the day when I go to the studio, him say, “Sing another song mek I hear.” And me sing a tune named “Marry Me.” And him say, “Yeah man,” and him never record “[Woman Is Like A] Shadow,” or “Grow Your Dread.” Then I go to Niney [the Observer]. Niney was doing some auditions for Byron Lee at the time. And I sing the two songs again to him. And him say come record them Wednesday. So when I go there Wednesday, he tell I say, well, Earth & Stone have two love songs. And his love songs selling. So mi say, “Okay.” So, him never record it. So I go down to Phil Pratt.

Wow.
Phil Pratt, now, [had] my best friend working with him at the time, Al Campbell. So, Phil Pratt say, you must come every Wednesday, come practice. And every Wednesday we’d go, we didn’t see him. So the last Wednesday we went there, Al Campbell said, “Look, Ansel, you see that song that we have—[that’s] a hit song. Do that song there for yourself. Make Phil Pratt [look like] a joke.” So when I go home, [I asked] my girlfriend at the time, “What [if I] a bill a [recording studio]? What you think?” She said, “Mi prefer you bill a [recording studio].” Because I did record this song, “Sitting on the Sidewalk,” on little Gigi’s [label]. And mi never get no money off of it. So [she said] it’s better if you bill [a recording studio]. So that song—mi go do that song for Channel One. So after mi do it for Channel One, and it was sitting there now—as I was telling you before—Winston come and tell me that him record a song. And Danny record a song. So the song Danny record was “Babylon Trap Dem” and “Longest Sliver.” So Dobby Dobson released “Babylon Trap Dem” as Danny Clarke. And “Woman Piabba” as Winston Watson. So looking to the whole thing now, we still never group. We don’t group [yet], you know?

Yeah, you still weren’t The Meditations yet?
No. It’s just because the three of us only can sing at the time to match each other in the ghetto, you know? But I was afraid of the group singing now. Because The Linkers give me a lot of trouble. This time, even when I’m going to record and looking for the next man, I can’t find the next man, you know? One would come today, [and] the next one don’t come. It was a lot of puzzling. So I was scared of going back into a group. And then, I go back in the studio and I produced “Tricked.”

You guys landed on TV [after releasing “Tricked,”] I think?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah it was getting a fight because dem ban it. They didn’t want to play it.

Yeah, because it’s so fierce.
Yeah, and then after that now, Dobby Dobson come back to us [and] he asked me for that song to put out. No—no—yeah. No, after “Babylon Trap Dem,” he come to me and tell me that—after I do “Tricked,” and “Tricked” was selling, [he asked] if I could give it to him to release up there. And I give it to him. And then him come back, [and] him say the people love it, you know? Why not call yourself a group name? And then we went down to Lee Scratch Perry’s studio now ([The Black Ark)] with Dobby Dobson. And we do “Running from Jamaica,” and two more songs. And that—Ken Williams come down to Jamaica and hear the song, and say: “Dobby, a big tune this! Big, big [tune]!”

Yeah. “Running from Jamaica.”
Yeah, yeah. And Ken Williams take it, and come up here and drop it pon the radio. Mash up the place!

So I don’t mean to interrupt you, but just to go back for a second to what you just said—just to be sure. So it’s really Dobby Dobson who kinda said, “Hey, you guys should group up.”
Right.

True. Okay, good. Because I’m not sure that that’s really known. So I’m glad to pin that down. And I’m glad you started to talk about “Running from Jamaica.” Because I’ve listened to that, Ansel, I’ve listened to “Running from Jamaica” probably 50 times in the last week. And so, I love this song. This is a song that you wrote, correct?
Right. Uh-huh.

I want to ask about it, because the song, you know, is kinda dealing with the violence in Jamaica at that time, and, to some people’s response to it—the political violence. To quote “Run from Jamaica” to other countries to take up citizenship. And to me the song is so genius, because at the same time it’s so melodic—it’s so nice [and] so pleasant to the ears to listen to. But also, it’s so up in your face. And it’s very vehement—the lyrics. Why did you have such a resentment, or why did The Meditations generally, you know, because you guys sang it as a group—but you were the writer of the song. Why did you have such a resentment at that time for people who were fleeing from Jamaica to other countries? Though as you [sing] in the song, pointedly, not to Africa. But why were you having such a resentment [toward] the people who were leaving Jamaica at that time?
Well, you see, when there’s a struggle, you know, when there’s a struggle, you have to come together and try to see that better come out of the movements.

True.
And the same people dem that running, it’s the same people that destroying the country.

Wow.
You have the people dem living one way, and the people dem working like a slave. And don’t decide to give the people dem what they’re really supposed to get. So when you cry out now, and say “No,” you want a change, dem either send dem big police friend to come beat you or do some form of thing to you. See?

Yeah.
And then when the battle get hot now, dem run. You see? (Laughing) So the idea [where] that [song] come [from]—because, I live in it, you know? And I see what was taking place at the time. All of what’s going on. That knowledge, a lot there, between politricks and see the way how these politicians have the youth dem destroying each other—because of hungry.

Yeah, true, poverty. The song instructs “Pick your place for now,” and warns—
Right.

—“When the gate is closed we don’t want no knocking.”
Right.

And then you also sing—I want to ask about this—you also sing: “When the gate is closed, we don’t want no ruk-a-duk.” Ruk-a-duk?
Ruk-a-duk [is when] you shake the gates, you know? (Laughing)

(Laughing) That’s what I wanted to know! Because—is that patois?
Yeah, yeah, that’s patois.

Nice.
“When the gate is closed, we don’t want no ruk-a-duk,” you know?

I had to know because I listened to the song so much—(Laughing and gesturing as if shaking a gate). “Ruk-a-duk” is the [sound of the] shaking of the gate.
(Laughing) Yeah.

Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for telling me this. Because I really wanted to know that. Now I was curious, Ansel, though: you know, later on in life, both Danny and then Winston first—those two, first—they later moved to the United States. And then, later on you would follow them—not until maybe the 90s, I believe. But because you later all moved to the United States, did you ever, at any time, look back on that song, that song “Running from Jamaica,” and think—
Well, you know I get a lot of—

—maybe you were a bit harsh because you guys left Jamaica, too?
No. No—I get a whole heap of backlash with that song with my brederen (smiling). You know, Jimmy Riley?

Yeah.
Well Jimmy Riley passed away, [but] Jimmy Riley [said to me]: “Wait, why you sing ‘Running from Jamaica’ to the United States? That means I run.” You have Glen Washington, that man [called me to laugh about it] every day. Yeah, a lot of people—

A lot of people weren’t happy with you?
No, but you see, it’s not a matter that “run,” you know? No, it’s not a matter of run. During the political times, mi youth—I was more concerned about the youth dem. And it’s not really me [that] I run [from Jamaica, either]. It just happened a way that, their mother brought them to the United States. And she asked me if I could have them here for a while. So I leave them at my father’s gates. So it just happened that with the political things going on, and the environments where I’m living, and you know, I just say, “this is my youth.” A friend of mine said, “Look, you have to think about your youth dem, you know?” Mi say, “But I can’t—my career would mash up if I come to the [United] States [to] live. And it really happened, because you know, in Jamaica, I was more moving up to the people dem.

You moved for your children?
Right, children. I did it for them. I’m glad, too, because with what’s going on, you will be involved with things that you don’t think about. Because first thing—my thing—my heart is the love for the di people. Helping the people dem, you know? That’s how I see it. Because my yard, every day you will see people come “beg you likkle that” now. “Beg you likkle that” now. “Give me a bus fare” now. “Mi children want go a-school.” And I be always giving, giving, giving. So when it get away now, mi have a likkle shop out there where—mi never know why mi open it. Mi just open it for the people dem. For mi not get nothing off of it. And men [broke into] the shop at night—

Oh man.
—and it didn’t good for them too much, so you know what them do? Lay in wait me one night and chop off a-mi head. (Chuckling) So that’s why you see, my songs dem [have to deal] with reality, you know? What really takes place inna earth. And Jah gives me the inspiration to sing, and make the people dem know what’s going on.

Respect. Hey Ansel, eventually when you did move from Jamaica to the U.S., where Danny and Winston were, you guys, I know—
No I know where they were, you know?

Well when you guys reunited—when you all three were in the United States. And you had some great albums after you guys got back [together]—not that you guys ever really broke apart, but just that you were separated by distance. But when you were all together in the United States, you put out some great albums. Why did you stop performing with Winston and Danny? Why did you transition these past years to working with Laury Webb and Daddy Lion Chandell. How did that happen that The Meditations—the original lineup [of The Meditations]—stopped performing together?
No what really happened there, you know, it’s not a matter say of move away from them. It’s just that certain things happened in the time. But we was still singing together. There was a time we wasn’t—people say we break up. It’s when I was in Jamaica, and then my visa was canceled. And my foot was [broken, too]. So I was in Jamaica for five years—that’s why it happened that I do that album for Linval Thompson named—

“No More Friend.”
“No More Friend,” yeah. And that is the time when I do that album. Because I couldn’t come up here at the time.

But what happened where you stopped performing with Winston and Danny? What happened [so that] they don’t perform with you anymore? Why is it that—
No, no, no. It’s not a matter of why we stopped performing together. After I came [to the United States] in 1990—after I get back my paperwork—we started to tour all over again [in] different places. Ups and downs then. After a while, Winston was giving [me] a lot of trouble in the group. And, you see, it wasn’t good for the group. I tried to talk to him, because I love the group so much. But when we go places, people admire us very much, you know? They just want to see the three of us together. Because, the harmony, and the beauty about it—the three of us can lead sing. And the three of us can sing harmony.

Yeah. All three of you guys could be the lead or the harmony.
When it comes down to the harmony, there’s no joke about it. Because when we do those albums, those harmonies for some singers—Ken Williams himself send some tracks down there for us to put our harmony on. And then Lee Scratch Perry, again, [used The Meditations to sing] a lot of harmonies. The Congos—I introduced Cedric [Myton] to Lee Scratch Perry.

Wow.
I am the one that introduced him to Lee Scratch Perry. And Lee Scratch Perry started to record him. But The Congos wasn’t a group with—or I was there before Watty [Burnett], but Roy was singing harmony. He was just there because—longtime he going to Scratch, you know? He was there long time. Every day he going there with Scratch. And then when Cedric start to come around now, dem try to do a likkle thing, but we have to do all the harmonies dem at the time [at Scratch’s Black Ark Studio].

“The Heart of the Congos” is such a beautiful album.
Yeah, the “Heart of the Congos.” Well you know you just have to give thanks and praises to the Most High. And just keep doing the best that we’re doing. And other artists come around—so what happened now, from there [after Winston left the group], Danny—we put Milton in the group—Milton Henry. And we do a couple of shows. And then Winston come back and say him change. [That] [h]e will do better now, and put him back in the group. But it didn’t work out again. Different reasons. Maybe him never see what we a-see. So it was Danny there now. And Danny have a little problem. And him went back to Jamaica. So it [was] I alone up here at the time.

I see. Yeah.
And then, I have to have now—that’s when someone introduced [Daddy Lion] Chandell to me. And [I] start[ed] to teach him the harmonies—the style of [The Meditations’s] harmonies. [And with] Laury Webb, mi carry dem on the road with we. So them been with me now for over 15 years.

Wow. Singing all The Meditations’s songs just like you guys used to—
Yeah and dem doing a pretty good job—Laury Webb and Chandell, you know?

Yeah. Ansel, I want to ask you—to squeeze in a question here about a solo album that you did. Because I ran into it, I was doing some research, and I pulled it up and I was just so amazed by it, and I want to ask about it. I saw that there was this live [album of yours called,] “Ansel Meditations: Live in Africa.” It was recorded on the Ivory Coast in Abidjan—
(Laughing) Right.

—I have to ask you about this. How did this album take place?
Well you see that album, it was [so] amazing to I, myself. Because a brederen that I met named Georges Kouakou—I met him in Atlanta, Georgia—we, The Meditations, was doing a show down there. Going on tour, and we heard him and this next brederen, we call him “Irie,” they was playing. And while they was playing, I was listening, and [I said] that keyboard player is a great keyboard player—he can play. And the bass player[, too.] So after a few years we have them touring with me. Well after a long run, after I produced this album and give to Easy Star [Records]—and that is The [Meditations’s album] “Ghetto Knowledge”—

Yeah, that’s a great album.
Right. Tings never—some of the musicians and Georges Kouakou now, him a-join up with some of us. So he called me, and said they want me to do a show on [the] Ivory Coast. I think that was [in] 2007. And mi say, “Yeah?”

Had you ever been there—
No.

Had you been to Africa before?
No. That was my first time. So when we get there now, there was three girls, and they was learning the harmony—and the musicians also. Then after—

These were African singers and musicians?
Yeah. All of them (laughing). All of them is Africans.

Wow! And they learned all The Meditations’s songs that are on that album!?
Yeah.

Wow!
After I did the show [in the] night, in the morning the guy—no, after the show, them give me the CD. So mi have the CD in my bag there, you know? Never really think about the CD until when I get home now. And one day when I’m there now—when I’m here—mi plug in the CD. And [mi] start to play the CD, and mi a-say, “Wait!” When mi hear it never sound—mi say wait, what’s this?

What was the best part of doing that album in Africa for you?
Well that is what I’m trying to tell you. I was so shocked when I heard the CD. So I go to the record shop—Moodie’s Record Shop—and mi say play the CD here for me. And Moodie’s said, “Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Who play [on] this CD?” Mi say, “Mi just go do this show and dem give me the CD. It no mix or anything.” And him say—Moodie’s was amazed about it, man. And right away now mi carry it to Bullwackie. And Bullwackie edit it. And after them edit it, dem say “Yes, this a bad CD, man!”

I would love to see that. If there was a video. Ansel, it’s getting late and I know that you have to perform tomorrow, so I only have a few more questions. We’ve been talking for quite some time already—almost 70 minutes now. And I—
But again, you know, but I still want to big up—before you go further—yeah mi work with some great producers. Who inspire I inna the business. Man like Willie Lindo—can’t leave [him out]. That man play my tunes dem, long time dem play inna studio. From Federal [Studio] days, Willie Lindo been playing [my] music.

You know, I was confused at first when you said—for some reason I was thinking—I’ll be honest with you, when we were talking last week, I was confused because you were talking about Willie Lindo. [And] I was thinking about Wire Lindo for some reason.
(Smiling) No, no, no. Willie Lindo.

And then I realized, I figured out my confusion because I was asking you about Kashief Lindo. Because he worked on your album “Smile Again,” too. [And he’s] Willie Lindo’s son.
Yeah, Willie Lindo’s son.

I want to ask, Ansel—first of all, give thanks for being so generous with your time. You’ve had such a spectacular career, Ansel, and you’ve had so many hit songs, I just want to mention right now, I’m hoping that you’re gonna let me—maybe you’ll let me interview you again some time next year. Because—
Yeah, we could.

—there’s so much music—you know all of your hit songs. And you know there are so many songs I haven’t even asked you about. And I want to ask you about [them], so hopefully, maybe sometime next year—
[Yeah and] I put out an EP a couple of years ago with Ranking Joe, you know—

And I love—you know Ranking Joe is a staple in Los Angeles—
Yeah.

—you know, he’s out here. And you know, he rocks it at the Dub Club—
Yeah.

—all the time. So you know I need to talk to you [at some other point] about that album—
Yeah.

—with Ranking Joe. But I want to ask you, Ansel, tonight, I have to ask you, because no interview of you would be complete if I didn’t ask you about working with Lee Scratch Perry and Bob Marley—as you mentioned to me last week. And I want to ask you a little bit more about it. You were talking to me—we were talking about producers last week. And that brought you to start talking about watching Bob Marley and Lee Scratch Perry working on “Blackman Redemption” [together]. Which of course The Meditations sang background vocals on.
Yeah.

I was wondering, Ansel, could you, for all the reggae lovers, could you please tell me that story again—about when you saw [Bob and Scratch] working together in the studio. And how that showed you how Lee Scratch Perry was as a producer. And Bob as an artist.
Well, when I get there, as I was telling, the people dem before was singing that song from 7:30 ‘till about 11 o’clock. So one at a time now when we come back out of the voicing room—I thought the song done. And then Bob come around now, and Scratch say, “What happened? You take a break?” And Bob say, “What you mean take a break? The song done, man.” And Scratch say, “You’re wrong, man.” And Bob a-say, “What!? You think I-man a machine?” And Scratch say, “Alright, here we go. Go take a draw and drink some water. You come back, and mek we finish it up.” So Bob looked [at Scratch,] and Bob laughed. Him say, “Alright.” And we go in there and do that song. And when Bob go back in there, Scratch show him some likkle thing. Now I understand—not under—overstand what it really takes, you know for a good producer to promote the best part of a man. Yeah, I see it. I see what it really takes. When I work with [a] man like Willie Lindo, and Scratch. And I see the movements of them. We have another friend named “General Lee,” you see—

With Scratch, you guys—the singles that The Meditations recorded at the Black Ark—which of course, you know, but just to mention—“No Peace,” “House of Parliament,” and “Think So.” Those are some of the most righteous songs—I think everyone would agree—from that era. And everyone who listens to them would recognize them. And I was curious, what is—you were telling me about “Blackman Redemption,” but you did so much work with Scratch. Is that time when you recorded— well, let me ask it this way: What is your fondest memory, Ansel, because I love Lee Scratch Perry—what is your fondest memory of Lee Scratch Perry?
Down there daytime with him, watch[ing] him doing [his thing]. And the way he was working, and the things that him doing.

Yeah. He loved it—he loved the music.
Yeah. He was outside there sitting, and a bird would come out and [(imitating bird sounds)]. And Scratch would see that bird and just run out there and put a mike out there. (Laughing)

(Laughing)
That’s the man Scratch Perry was, you know?

Oh man—
Any likkle sound him hear, you know, he’d run and mike that, you know? Take any likkle sound, and—it’s a little 8-track him have, you know? But he used to get 32-tracks out of [just] the 8-track [system he had]. (Laughing)

Now I have to ask, Ansel, also, because you know, like I think anyone with any sense, I’m a giant Bob Marley fan. Can you tell me, in the work you did professionally with Bob Marley—and we know—
Well [in] the work [I did] professionally, [it was] when we were in the studio at Aquarius [Studios], recording “Black Man Redemption” and “Rastaman Live Up.” You know, that was a—memories! But one [of my best] memories [also] was when we was rehearsing for the Peace Concert.

Yeah. This is the “One Love Peace Concert” in 1978, which was the 12th anniversary of Selassie coming to the island [of Jamaica]?
Right. And they was singing “Keep on Moving.” And I remember when Bob say, “Take it, Meditations!” And Winston grabbed that note (singing): “Maybe someday, I’ll find a peace of land…”

Wow.
And you know, Winston [sang] natural, you know?

So Bob—let me make sure I understand. In the middle of the song, Bob looked over and said, “Take it Meditations!?”
Yeah. When him say (singing), “Lord I’m gonna keep on moving, Lord, I’m gonna get on down.” Then him say, “Take it over, Meditations!

Oh my gosh! (laughing in awe)
(Laughing) And Winston grabbed Bunny Wailer’s spot.

Wow!
That amazed, Bob. Bob said, “What!?” Bob say, “Tyrone! A-Wailers this!

Did you guys open that concert? Were you guys—
Yeah we was the first ones who opened the concert.

I read somewhere, and I don’t know if it’s true, Ansel, but, did Bob ask you guys to open the concert?
Yeah. No, no. He didn’t ask us. Him say him want [us to] come sing two tunes. And then sing two tunes with him onstage. But it’s Tommy Cowan. He’s the one that put we there to open [the concert].

Were you guys scared at all? About the political violence?
Well at that time, people did scare now. It was not an easy thing, you know? People did scare because, you know, it’s a political thing. And you don’t know what can happen with so much thousands of people gathering around.

Yeah.
You don’t know if your too political and your rival a-gwaan, so people was tense.

Did you smoke a lot of weed before you got on stage? (Laughing)
No, no. I never smoke, you know?

What!? You never smoked?
No, no.

You’ve never—just to ask because someone [else] blew my mind with this recently, too. I think it was Judge from the Mighty Diamonds. Judge—he’s never smoked before, too. Are you saying you’ve never smoked?
Smoke wasn’t for me. You see, when I first started going in the studio, I couldn’t sing inna smoke at all.

It bothered you?
Yeah, dem have to open the studio doors and blow it out. Before I can really sing, you know?

Interesting, interesting. Now I have to ask also about Gregory Isaacs. Because you know, I love Gregory Isaacs. And I love that song “Mr. Cop,” [which The Meditations sang background vocals on]. Can you tell me, Ansel, what you remember most about Gregory—and working with Gregory?
(Smiling) Well, Gregory is a one-in-the-world. In movements, you know? If you around Gregory, man, you have to have your movie camera, because everything him say and do is a movie-ting that. (Laughing) Some of these people they act. But [people like Gregory], them movement is real. So what you see is what you get. And no pretending. You know, Gregory, was, if you around Gregory, [if] you can hear Gregory talk and move—you just laugh, man. (Laughing)

He was genuine—
A mystic man! Yeah, a mystic man, Gregory. You know Jamaica have some great artists, you know? I don’t know for what reason, you know, them not around here with us [anymore]. Because when you look back pon a man like Peter Tosh. When you look pon Bunny Wailer. Dem man there. Bob himself, you know? Dem people there—The Paragons. I mean, John Holt. Slim Smith—

Yeah.
And when dem bring the recognition—what dem bring to Jamaica. All over. Because right now, you know, with the young youth mi a deal with, I feel there are not too many times where they motivate I with what mi a-gwaan with them now. They talking, and they fighting, and they chasing one another, and they’re telling one another [this and that]—nah, me no dig that. Rasta deal with—

“Ah Not My Thing That,” right?
“Ah Not My Thing That,” as Don Angelo would say. “Ah Not My Thing That.”

Not everyone may know, [but] that’s [the name of one of the] song[s] on Ansel’s new album.
Yeah, [featuring] Don Angelo.

[It’s] a great song. Ansel, because I’m confident that you and I are going to keep in touch and, Jah willing, I’ll get another chance to reason with you—
Uh-huh.

—I only have two last questions [for] you tonight—before we hang up. And you go—
Okay.

—and get rest for your show tomorrow night.
As you say that, you see this eye, Steve (pointing at left eye)—

Yeah.
I do operation on it a couple of months ago—

Wow.
—so, I don’t know. It giving me some likkle problems still. So I went to the doctor today. [And] I think he gave me around five injections in it (gesturing to left eye). [See how] it’s swollen?

Yeah.
Yeah so it—

You gonna be able to perform tomorrow?
You know, that can’t stop I; a not my throat (laughing).

Nice (laughing).
(Laughing) Uh-huh.

Ansel, as 2022 comes to a close—and we look toward 2023—are there any new albums, new collaborations, any other new musical projects, that all The Meditations’s fans around the world—and we’re talking about a lot of people—that they should keep a watch out for? What’s next for Ansel Cridland and The Meditations?
Well, I don’t go back in the studio yet, because I don’t feel pleased yet with this new album—I know, say—this new album, now—

“Smile Again.”
“Smile Again.” This album is so great.

It is.
You know when you done something, and you feel it in your heart?

Yeah.
I know it don’t reach the people dem, and it do not get where it’s supposed to get. Yet. But I still have hope of still promoting this album [some more,] before I even think of the studio [again]. You know, because the message on this album here is—is very great. Great message on it. And no joke. It’s what’s happen[ing] to us right now. Life I’m living. Suffering. People pissing all over. Things happening (shaking head)—

True.
—you know—war. Look what a-gwaan in Ukraine. On this album we talk about [things like this].

Yeah.
You leave your home, [and] you’re not sure you will go back home. There’s always some ambush pon the road—and some form a-thing a-gwaan. You know, tribulations and all dem things. And that’s what we sing about. We just want people fi just listen, and try to do them very best. And dem young youths who are growing up? You know, [a true Rastaman] wants peace [not violence].

Respect, Ansel.
That’s what we think about, you know. Don’t war with nobody. You know, warmongers [all] over the world right now. No like it.

Thank you so much for saying that, Ansel. Ansel I want to thank you again—one last time. It’s truly been a great honor—and a pleasure—to connect with you.
Yeah man.

And I hope we’ll stay in touch, Ansel.
Yeah man.

It’s a blessing to meet you. But before we hang up for tonight: Is there any last message or any last words you want to convey to all the masses of Meditations fans—all around the world—people who have been listening to The Meditations now for 50 years—[and] maybe more. And we love your music. We love The Meditations. What’s the final message that you want to give to all The Meditations’s fans?
Just try to love each other. And stick with each other. The youths? Focus on them right now, because, what the youths dem are really doing right now, these young youths, it’s unbelievable. We don’t want to see that happen anymore.

Yeah.
I was just looking at some young youth that killed 17 children—[17] people over there. 17!? And now you just reached twenty-four-years-old [yourself]? Why!? Why you doing that? You throwing away your life so young. You don’t have a future. You know, the parents dem, please, please stop buy your youth dem gun. And all Meditations fans, stick to the music, because the music is what brings unity and peace to us. So stick to the music. Yes I.

Respect. Ansel, I wish you all the best at your show tomorrow, and we’ll be in touch after today, and give thanks—
And the show is not [really] a “show,” you know? It’s a Peter Tosh—

Tribute?
Yeah [that] dem doing. And I’m honored to be there, because you hear we now, Peter Tosh died talking about release ganja. And the way dem fight ganja, I don’t see dem fight crack and coke [the same] way. Them fight ganja more than anything.

Yeah. Hypocrites.
Yeah. And right now, see, how many people selling ganja now [with the blessing] of the government?

True.
Dem should. Because they cannot sell it now and have [people] locked down in a prison [for it, too]. As long as they no kill nobody, and dem [just want to grow, sell, and smoke weed], free dem, man!

Respect, respect.
Yeah man.

Well Ansel, all the best to you my friend. And we’ll be in touch. You take care. And best to Sharene, okay my friend? Take care.
Yeah man. One love.

Bless up, Ansel.
Irie. And bless up all the friends dem. General Lee, Ranking Joe—everyone, you know? All mi sons dem, also. And all di brederens in England, Jamaica, Canada, all over—family. Ansel. Cridland. Meditations. Jah Bless. Peace and love.

One love, Ansel.
And give thanks for your movements, also.

Respect. (Waving goodbye.)
Irie.